Mr. Curl is correct. Remember that "Vinyl" is short for polyvinylchloride (PVC). Not all the chloride is permanently bound in the polmer, so free radical chlorine is slowly released over time by the PVC. There is a very high thermodynamic drive for chlorine and copper to react forming cupric chloride which has a distinctive green color. Essentially the PVC directly causes aggressive surface corrosion of the copper wire.
Cheers, Terry
Cheers, Terry
john curl said:
Yeah, I mentioned in the article that as far as I know they did it on the scale and application noted.
Still, it's really nice to be able to talk to people who clearly are tinkerers in the real sense - they have an idea, work it out and come up with interesting products. Something I really would have liked to be doing. Maybe now that I have retired just last month, I get more time for things like that.
One thing I learned is that better stuff is almost invariably more expensive then its simpler counterpart, just because it is more difficult to make or requires more or more expensive material. BUT! That doesn't mean more expensive stuff is by definition better.
For instance, if some producer would sell one amp per week, that amp would have to cost a certain amount just to keep the producer alive, whatever the cost or merit of that amp. I believe that this is sometimes the reason why the difference between 'normal' hifi and hi end is much more in price than it is in quality.
Jan Didden
Me too
Sometimes that is true, Jan. Just like food. Mass produced food can be very cheap. Garden raised food can be very expensive, but what a difference!
Mass produced things just are NOT the same as handmade or hand raised things. Sometimes, we can get away with mass produced, but not always.
People of wealth can well afford to seek out the better things, and they are usually NOT mass produced. This is what keeps little companies, like Bear and I have, in business.
Parasound is limited mass production, so it doesn't count in this example, it is sort of in-between.
Mass produced things just are NOT the same as handmade or hand raised things. Sometimes, we can get away with mass produced, but not always.
People of wealth can well afford to seek out the better things, and they are usually NOT mass produced. This is what keeps little companies, like Bear and I have, in business.
Parasound is limited mass production, so it doesn't count in this example, it is sort of in-between.
john curl said:
I agree. I once built a series of 10 power amps for a friend. For some reason it felt like MUCH more effort and hassle than 10 times a single amp. I don't think it really is, but most private projects take several months to half a year or more. Multiply that by 10 or 60 and you can only do it as a full time job unless you want to spend the next years building the same thing over and over again.
john curl said:
Was that really necessary John?
Jan Didden
While my last statement was extreme, it is unfortunately accurate. For some reason, when you are attacked, it's too much, but when I am attacked, it is acceptable.
Much of the cost of a component is contained in the materials that it is made from and how expensive they are to fabricate. Rich people like well made and flashy looking components. This is really expensive. Mark-up, especially when the component is sold in another country, such as Japan by the importer and final retailer, is where the money is.
For the record, (and I think this might be a record) my preamp designed and built in my second bedroom, costs 4.95 MILLION YEN. Yet, I refuse to make any more, because it is a losing proposition and too much damn work! Why?
Much of the cost of a component is contained in the materials that it is made from and how expensive they are to fabricate. Rich people like well made and flashy looking components. This is really expensive. Mark-up, especially when the component is sold in another country, such as Japan by the importer and final retailer, is where the money is.
For the record, (and I think this might be a record) my preamp designed and built in my second bedroom, costs 4.95 MILLION YEN. Yet, I refuse to make any more, because it is a losing proposition and too much damn work! Why?
No, my cases did cost $3,000, the price set by the machine shop, however, for each customer. That is about 1/3 the price that I (the designer and manufacturer) get for the final unit that is then sent to Japan. The rest is duty, mark-up, shipping, etc, etc. and is completely out of my hands, and I get nothing else. Why? Ask the retailers, and importers. It is the same for Parasound, in reverse. We buy finished products from Taiwan, at perhaps 1/4 the final retail price. This is normal, and it is not that profitable.
Now, who is naive?
Now, who is naive?
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