Quick questions while I am still sorting out my options between modded UCD400 amps and UCD700s. I really want the higher current capability of the 700s, but I first need a few things cleared up before I feel comfortable to go with the new amps:
Will the UCD700 supply have DC protection in it like the old HG supply?
Another thing - I want to build true monoblocks - the supply is pretty much overkill for that as I understand. However, is there a way to buy the supply without the big slitfoil caps and then just isntall 20000uF of my choice for each monoblock supply (or do these things need 40,000 per module)? I'd like to use a proven design with DC protection over hand-building one, especially that even after reading all the UCD threads, I don't see a definitive circuit anywhere that tells me how to build a reliable DC protection circuit - obviously, if somebody point me to a thread that tells me how, the supply can be scratch-built.
And, will there be a US source for these mega transformers? It's not really an issue since Plitron sells 60/60V transformers over here. But I don't want to "add windings" to get the 12/12 and 15V outs, but rather use discrete transformers for those voltages. What type of rating do I need for those +/-12V and 15V supplies? I have really no clue about "driver voltage" and how much of a draw that would put on a supply.
Would the softstart module handle a 1500VA transformer if I elected to build a dual-mono amp in a single enclosure to save on the HG supply and share one between two modules?
any ETA on the HG suppy and transformers?
thanks for anything that can help me make up my mind at this stage
Peter
Will the UCD700 supply have DC protection in it like the old HG supply?
Another thing - I want to build true monoblocks - the supply is pretty much overkill for that as I understand. However, is there a way to buy the supply without the big slitfoil caps and then just isntall 20000uF of my choice for each monoblock supply (or do these things need 40,000 per module)? I'd like to use a proven design with DC protection over hand-building one, especially that even after reading all the UCD threads, I don't see a definitive circuit anywhere that tells me how to build a reliable DC protection circuit - obviously, if somebody point me to a thread that tells me how, the supply can be scratch-built.
And, will there be a US source for these mega transformers? It's not really an issue since Plitron sells 60/60V transformers over here. But I don't want to "add windings" to get the 12/12 and 15V outs, but rather use discrete transformers for those voltages. What type of rating do I need for those +/-12V and 15V supplies? I have really no clue about "driver voltage" and how much of a draw that would put on a supply.
Would the softstart module handle a 1500VA transformer if I elected to build a dual-mono amp in a single enclosure to save on the HG supply and share one between two modules?
any ETA on the HG suppy and transformers?
thanks for anything that can help me make up my mind at this stage
Peter
I saw the UCD700 supply is now available at Hypex. The pieces are coming together...
If I added a Plitron 60/60V 1500VA toroid to the supply, what else would I need to get? I assume I also will I need to build my own +12/-12V supply as well as a 15V supply? If yes, what's a recommended VA rating for the transformers in those supplies? Based on the last post, I assume a pretty small transformer would do the job.
And a cooling question: the heat sink on the UCD700s doesn't look like it needs to be mounted upside down against a heat sink. What's the recommended mounting position for these modules and how much heat sinking do they need?
Will there be a manual available for the UCD700 modules soon? I like to do my homework before I plunge into a project, and so far there's only a preliminary datasheet on the hypex web site.
Apart from all this, I am pretty much ready to place an order for my first two channels
Peter
If I added a Plitron 60/60V 1500VA toroid to the supply, what else would I need to get? I assume I also will I need to build my own +12/-12V supply as well as a 15V supply? If yes, what's a recommended VA rating for the transformers in those supplies? Based on the last post, I assume a pretty small transformer would do the job.
And a cooling question: the heat sink on the UCD700s doesn't look like it needs to be mounted upside down against a heat sink. What's the recommended mounting position for these modules and how much heat sinking do they need?
Will there be a manual available for the UCD700 modules soon? I like to do my homework before I plunge into a project, and so far there's only a preliminary datasheet on the hypex web site.
Apart from all this, I am pretty much ready to place an order for my first two channels
Peter
A transformer of 20VA will be already enough. However you could add some windings on the 1500VA toroid, to create these auxiliary supply. My advice would be to build only a dual mono amplifier!pburke said:
Mount the UcD700 with three screws to the bottom of your alu case, or at the side. The leaded components will face the bottom or side.
And a cooling question: the heat sink on the UCD700s doesn't look like it needs to be mounted upside down against a heat sink. What's the recommended mounting position for these modules and how much heat sinking do they need?
Will there be a manual available for the UCD700 modules soon? I like to do my homework before I plunge into a project, and so far there's only a preliminary datasheet on the hypex web site.
Apart from all this, I am pretty much ready to place an order for my first two channels
We will add today the manual and the datasheet on the website, so you could start to do your homework….
Jan-Peter
Jan-Peter said:
A transformer of 20VA will be already enough. However you could add some windings on the 1500VA toroid, to create these auxiliary supply. My advice would be to build only a dual mono amplifier!
Mount the UcD700 with three screws to the bottom of your alu case, or at the side. The leaded components will face the bottom or side.
We will add today the manual and the datasheet on the website, so you could start to do your homework….
Jan-Peter
Excellent. Have the manual and data sheet here now, and I am already having some ideas about the enclosure layout. Key question here: am I going to run into trouble if the supply caps are about 3 feet away from the modules in a remote enclosure?
Regarding transformers - I won't be able to add extra windings to the big Plitron since it is potted. No big deal, I'll just get a small one for the other voltages. Does the 700supply offer the regulation for the +12/-12 and 15V or is that something I have to build separately (I was planning on a super regulator in the longrun anyway)
Clarification on the "dual mono" amplifier advise: does that mean I need two of the 700 supplies for a stereo unit? Earlier in this thread (post #131) you say 20,000uF per channel is enough unless you run a PA system. This seems to contradict the dual mono suggestion (and becomes MUCH more expensive). Either way, I think I may be ordering dual supplies and try either way, since if I can't hear a difference, I will still be able to use the second supply for a second pair of amps I'll be needing.
Peter
Not really, but why would you like to have the wires so long? All caps for HF decoupling are locally on the board of the UcD700, so this extra length can not be such a problem. Anyway you don’t have to wire as short as possible, but you also don’t have to do it the other way around…..
Yes, all regulators are on the PCB. You only have to connect the AC voltages. It’s just plug an play.
For the best sonic performance we highly recommend to go for a dual mono amplifier, so every amp has a power supply. Indeed 20.000uF would be enough, but there are soooooo much customers who like to have more capacitors. For some is the 4 x 10.000uF / 100V BHC Slit-foil not enough……
Jan-Peter
Jan-Peter said:
Why I want the wires so long? I currently have monoblocks 3" behind my planars and I can hear the transformer 60hz hum in the speakers at idle - and those are the $$$ Plitron high grade Audio series transformers. I prefer near zero length speaker cables, so the plan is to have the UCDs close to the speakers, the rest a few feet off the back in a dedicated mu-metal shielded box. This also provides more interesting enclosure options for the modules themselves, especially regarding their size that otherwise is dominated by the huge transformer. The distance between PSU and "head unit" I'm thinking of is 2-3 feet max. Just to get the big heavy box out of the rear of the speaker, also to keep the back throw of the planars unobstructed.
Jan-Peter said:
60/60, 12/12 and 15 V AC, right?
Jan-Peter said:
For the best sonic performance we highly recommend to go for a dual mono amplifier, so every amp has a power supply. Indeed 20.000uF would be enough, but there are soooooo much customers who like to have more capacitors. For some is the 4 x 10.000uF / 100V BHC Slit-foil not enough……
Jan-Peter
well, I guess it's only money
Since I plan to biamp with 4 UCD700s, I will first build 2 of them and try single and dual PSU in a full-range test. If that doens't come out conclusive in favor of two supplies, I will go with the budget version and just use one supply per speaker (2 channel). It'll be an interesting test. I currenlty have 2x180,000uF in Class A/AB on these speakers and they really like it...
Oh - the softstart - using 2 supplies and a 1500VA transformer, would that be a problem? I can still "downsize" to 1000VA, but I've never been a fan of undersizing
Now off to figuring out your webshop
Peter
You have two types of hum;
Mechanical hum of the transformer, there are manufacture who are having a very low mechanical noise. Sometimes very difficult to find a good solution if you have this problem.
Hum because of bad lay outing of the rectifiers and capacitors, easy avoidable when you use a good layout. So buy our power supplies and you will have NO hum in your loudspeakers.
Right, but to be more clear: high power toroid 60-0 / 60-0 (dual rectifiers!), low power 12-0-12 and 0-15 VAC.
Soft start will work, however it’s not only the problem of an huge transformer but also how much capacitors you have. One soft start will be fine for one UcD700 power supply with 4 x 10,000uF. But it has no sense to use one transformer on two power supplies! For the best sonic performance every amplifier must have his own power supply.
Very smart to first build a dual mono setup and if this works fine, to upgrade to biamp your system. However I guess you will be already very happy with a dual mono UcD700, I can’t believe the step for a baimp setup will give you an huge improvement. Of course we like to sell more amps, so please don’t read these last words….
Jan-Peter
Jan-Peter said:
well, the transformers are the Plitron low mechanical noise type, and the sound is not originating from the amps, but rather the bass panel of the speakers. I think the fact that I have my unshielded RCA cables hanging across the top of the amps while those are powered while the preamp is off turns them into 60hz antennas
Have to double check, but I think the noise goes away when I power up the rest of the system. I'll be experimenting with layouts once I build the UCDs - not a huge issue anyway, since I can power the UCDs down unlike my current amps that are supposed to run 24/7 to fully charge up the caps - while eating 60Watts each at idle...The bigger temptation to separate the layout is that I can put a UCD700 module into a very small heat sink 5 1/4" hard drive enclosure (40mm clearance) like the one I Ihave my DAC/headphone amp is inside of:
http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio/DDDAC16/pix/3943_now_thats_a_cool_looking_DAC.jpg
I already have the exact rear panel dimensions for custom rear plates from FrontPanelexpress, plus I have a few of the enclosures left over since I had to buy a 10-pack to get them intially.
Jan-Peter said:
perfect - just added that to the manual
Jan-Peter said:
So the purist approach is to build full mono setups... 750VA 60-0-60 each module, and a softstart for each module. Hey, like I said earlier, it's only money
lemme run a few numbers again.... cha ching cha ching.... cha ching... -- ok, I can still afford it.
Jan-Peter said:
Very smart to first build a dual mono setup and if this works fine, to upgrade to biamp your system. However I guess you will be already very happy with a dual mono UcD700, I can’t believe the step for a baimp setup will give you an huge improvement. Of course we like to sell more amps, so please don’t read these last words….
Jan-Peter
I already have a $$$$ active crossover - the elimination of the undersized low range passive crossover on the Magnepan speakers is a huge improvement, especially in bass response where the speakers are known to be a little weak. Also, once I can sell the class A/AB monoblocks I have now, 4 channels of the 700s is pretty much covered. Don't you love customers like that?
Peter
Hey Peter, if you live in Wisconsin and are game to experiment with 60-0 + 60-0 transformers, you might try a pair of MGE UPS Topaz high isolation transformers per monoblock. Use the series 240V input wiring on the transformer to step down the voltage to ~60V on the output. These transformers attenuate common mode noise by a factor of 140dB at 100kHz (0.005pF capacitance or something), and normal noise by a factor of 65dB. I think eCost sells them, though the'll set you back $300 a piece or so.
well, to be honest, when "240V" is on the label, I don't like to experiment
Let's just stick with these for now:
http://www.plitron.com/pages/Products/Std/ratings.htm
625 or 750VA each module - part # 097052201 or 107052201, about $100 a piece.
Peter
Let's just stick with these for now:
http://www.plitron.com/pages/Products/Std/ratings.htm
625 or 750VA each module - part # 097052201 or 107052201, about $100 a piece.
Peter
I suspect the Topazs are the better build, including for mechanical noise ... but they're just a suggestion. Here are relevant specs, for anyone interested in them:
Electrical Specifications
Input voltage 120, 240, 480VAC – depending on model
Common mode noise attenuation 140dB @ 100KHz
Normal mode noise attenuation 65dB @ 100KHz
Overload capacity 600% for 1 cycle, 300% for 30 seconds
Dielectric strength 2500 VAC minimum
Impedance 3% to 6%, depending on size
Efficiency 93% to 97%, depending on size
Input voltage range Nominal voltage ± 10%
Load regulation 2% to 5%, no load to full load at unity power factor
Harmonic distortion Adds less than 1% THD, under linear loading
Coil insulation 200ºC
Temperature Rise 115ºC max rise above a 40ºC ambient
Electro-magnetic interference Less than 0.2 gauss @ 3 ft.
Environmental Specifications
Audible noise Less than 50dB measured @ 3ft.
Electrical Specifications
Input voltage 120, 240, 480VAC – depending on model
Common mode noise attenuation 140dB @ 100KHz
Normal mode noise attenuation 65dB @ 100KHz
Overload capacity 600% for 1 cycle, 300% for 30 seconds
Dielectric strength 2500 VAC minimum
Impedance 3% to 6%, depending on size
Efficiency 93% to 97%, depending on size
Input voltage range Nominal voltage ± 10%
Load regulation 2% to 5%, no load to full load at unity power factor
Harmonic distortion Adds less than 1% THD, under linear loading
Coil insulation 200ºC
Temperature Rise 115ºC max rise above a 40ºC ambient
Electro-magnetic interference Less than 0.2 gauss @ 3 ft.
Environmental Specifications
Audible noise Less than 50dB measured @ 3ft.
folks, you'd sell more of these UCD700s if one could log into your webshop:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
type Exception report
message
description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.
exception
org.apache.jasper.JasperException
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:372)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:292)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:236)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
root cause
java.lang.NullPointerException
java.net.URLDecoder.decode(URLDecoder.java:119)
com.detrics.ormadashop.orm.WebRelation.getCompany(WebRelation.java:542)
org.apache.jsp.webclients.clientmenu_jsp._jspService(clientmenu_jsp.java:57)
org.apache.jasper.runtime.HttpJspBase.service(HttpJspBase.java:94)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:324)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:292)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:236)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
note The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the Apache Tomcat/5.0.28 logs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
type Exception report
message
description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.
exception
org.apache.jasper.JasperException
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:372)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:292)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:236)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
root cause
java.lang.NullPointerException
java.net.URLDecoder.decode(URLDecoder.java:119)
com.detrics.ormadashop.orm.WebRelation.getCompany(WebRelation.java:542)
org.apache.jsp.webclients.clientmenu_jsp._jspService(clientmenu_jsp.java:57)
org.apache.jasper.runtime.HttpJspBase.service(HttpJspBase.java:94)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:324)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:292)
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:236)
javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
note The full stack trace of the root cause is available in the Apache Tomcat/5.0.28 logs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.