Jan-Peter said:
Me too, but the difference is quite serious.... You hear the sonic difference in a few seconds.....
hmmmmm, how do they sound with a 60V supply?
[/QUOTE][/B]
Your setup is a 3-way active system, so this is already sounding SOO MUCH better. I would keep it as it is now, but in future?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, active is the way to go, less IM distortion and amps need to deliver less power, so amps are not sweating that hard, especially the amps for midrange and tweeter don't have that much to do.
[/QUOTE][/B]
Indeed, to risky because of the high voltage and direct connected to the mains voltage.
Jan-Peter [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree, you don't want to be responsible for some DIYer electrocuting himself, in Japan the mains are only 100V though, maybe just a tiny little fraction less deadly.
Best regards
Gertjan
Yet many many examples in the audio history proves the opposite...
But wouldn't it be nice ?
Anyway it seems the UcD700 and ZAPpulse 700XE will be out on the street simultanously, and i am really looking forward to the moment where somebody makes an (independent) A/B test of the two.
So if any of you guys who are reading this thread are interested in making this test, i will certainly talk with the people at L C Audio about sponsoring the test. I guess i'm as curious as the rest of you guys.
Of course providing that Hypex is up for the challenge??
Hugo,
750VA transformer is 2x115V / 2x60V / 2x12V / 1x15V, size 162x56mm.
1200VA trasnformer same voltages, size +/-180x75mm.
The datasheet of the UcD700 is here; http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD700_datasheet.pdf
The details of the 'audiophile' supplies is in the UcD700 supply.....
Jan-Peter
750VA transformer is 2x115V / 2x60V / 2x12V / 1x15V, size 162x56mm.
1200VA trasnformer same voltages, size +/-180x75mm.
The datasheet of the UcD700 is here; http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD700_datasheet.pdf
The details of the 'audiophile' supplies is in the UcD700 supply.....
Jan-Peter
If I knew the reason why it sound better......
No to be serious, we keep the modules how they are now. The main difference could probably be the full seperate power supplies for the buffer stage. Nobody tries yet to connect the low voltage power supply of the HG Supply to power the inpt buffer of the UcD180 or UcD400. This could be a very interesting tweak, you only have to remove the voltage regulators on the UcD module and connect the +12V / -12V of the HG supply to the module. In this way the bufferstage has a very clean power supply.
We have listen to a stereo UcD400 amplifier what was tweaked with a very good SMPS and seperate op amp stage, funny to hear this difference.
For the rest the modules will be as they are, so the modders has more room to investigate by them self or by this forum for more tweaks.
On the UcD700 module you can also replace the dual op amp for two singel op amps. So an upgrade, by yourself, is possible to other single high graded audiophile op amps. (OPA627AU...??)
Jan-Peter
Jan-Peter said:
Sounds very interesting to me. Can i ask more detailed instructions for that. What exactly i have to remove and where i must connect 12V / -12V. I would like to do it to my 4-ch UCD180 amps which drives my Linkwitz Orions mid & tweeter (I can not imagine very much better platform to test
) I would be very greatful for you kindly help.Can i use same high quality power supply to all 4 UCD:s (not your ps.)
Maybe this is a really dumb concern, but... Jan-Peter, I'm not that confident that those flimsy-looking faston connectors you're using can provide optimum contact and sonic performance when it comes to such high currents.
Do you think that sturdier/different connectors at least for the speaker terminals (but I wouldn't mind for the rails as well) are totally out of the question, even as an option?
Do you think that sturdier/different connectors at least for the speaker terminals (but I wouldn't mind for the rails as well) are totally out of the question, even as an option?
@m.parigi:
Nothing is stopping you from soldering cables to your modules I guess!
Faston is used in a lot of applications, even in planes, so i'm sure it's safe to use.
@Jan-Peter:
The tip of running the opamp stage from its own power supply is something you mentioned before.
Since I have your HG supply and the 500VA transformer, I'm willing to try that - however, I have no idea where to solder the +12v/-12v/gnd to the modules. If anyone figured out how to do this, please tell me
PS. Strangely, the 500VA transformer I've recieved doesn't have the 16V secondaries mentioned in the manual.
Nothing is stopping you from soldering cables to your modules I guess!
Faston is used in a lot of applications, even in planes, so i'm sure it's safe to use.
@Jan-Peter:
The tip of running the opamp stage from its own power supply is something you mentioned before.
Since I have your HG supply and the 500VA transformer, I'm willing to try that - however, I have no idea where to solder the +12v/-12v/gnd to the modules. If anyone figured out how to do this, please tell me
PS. Strangely, the 500VA transformer I've recieved doesn't have the 16V secondaries mentioned in the manual.
Hi,
Yves seperate supplies for the input stage would likely be a good mod for any amp that doesnt' already have it it, however in class d it may prove to be even more beneficial.
Now if you'd like to take a cue from the commercial guys it's probably also a decent way to cheap out on the supply and still maintain good sound quality for most of the every day listening levels power range.
Guys all you have to do is find your input op amp, look up the data sheet for it, see what the pin outs are, and you'll see which traces are +-12Vdc that way. Follow them to the local regulator circuit, it's a one transistor, two caps a zener maybe a few resistors, just a really simple discrete regulator you'll find it easily.
I'd solder it right onto the output of that regulator circuit to be safe, but I think I'd also be tempted to try it right on the power pins of the op amp.
Hypex apparently can't sell modified modules, kits, etc, you buy the module and do whatever you like with it. I'm surprised they even recommend modifying them, can't really expect detailed instructions on them for how to get it done, when there's probably people who pay them for that information.
By the way I thought originally the modules would have jumpers or something to swap from local aux. supplies to our own off board ones, along with the same feature for the input stage. I thought that was meant to mean the actual input stage itself.
Was I wrong? Can you tell us more about those jumpers and where they stand today, it seems like you've opted for off board supplies only, and then offer said supplies with your power supply. That's not really catering to the DIY per se but more to the kit builder, maybe a different level of information will be required for them to even want to try it.
Regards,
Chris
Yves seperate supplies for the input stage would likely be a good mod for any amp that doesnt' already have it it, however in class d it may prove to be even more beneficial.
Now if you'd like to take a cue from the commercial guys it's probably also a decent way to cheap out on the supply and still maintain good sound quality for most of the every day listening levels power range.
Guys all you have to do is find your input op amp, look up the data sheet for it, see what the pin outs are, and you'll see which traces are +-12Vdc that way. Follow them to the local regulator circuit, it's a one transistor, two caps a zener maybe a few resistors, just a really simple discrete regulator you'll find it easily.
I'd solder it right onto the output of that regulator circuit to be safe, but I think I'd also be tempted to try it right on the power pins of the op amp.
Hypex apparently can't sell modified modules, kits, etc, you buy the module and do whatever you like with it. I'm surprised they even recommend modifying them, can't really expect detailed instructions on them for how to get it done, when there's probably people who pay them for that information.
By the way I thought originally the modules would have jumpers or something to swap from local aux. supplies to our own off board ones, along with the same feature for the input stage. I thought that was meant to mean the actual input stage itself.
Was I wrong? Can you tell us more about those jumpers and where they stand today, it seems like you've opted for off board supplies only, and then offer said supplies with your power supply. That's not really catering to the DIY per se but more to the kit builder, maybe a different level of information will be required for them to even want to try it.
Regards,
Chris
OK, that was the way I was thinking to do it, but was afraid this solution is "too easy" - maybe more parts than the opamp need power, and I'm wondering if the GND to the opamp and the GND of the amp's power need to be connected in some way (common ground thing)
It's not that i'm too lazy to find out, i'm just too scared to do something wrong and waste a module that is quite expensive to my taste.
Yves
Jan-PeterOK, pins 4 and 8 are - and + voltage for the 8620 opamp. Maybe I'm dumb but I don't understand this thing needs no gnd connection - is this due to the differential input of that thing?
<<< needs to go back to electronics school
PS. I'm reading up on it now...
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/physics/ugrad/courses/mod_home/f31ylc/elecexpts/opamp/opamp.htm
<<< needs to go back to electronics school
PS. I'm reading up on it now...
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/physics/ugrad/courses/mod_home/f31ylc/elecexpts/opamp/opamp.htm
I discussed yesterday the interesting project of letting 3 independent teams here from the forum make impartial A/B comparisons of XE700 vs UcD700.
I personally think it could be a very interesting test, and i think many would like to see this test performed, by neutral / impartial users here from the forum.
My idea is to give each test team a stereo set of both modules to play with. Sponsored (to keep for the testers) by the producers. After some evaluation, they are supposed to post the test result here on the forum. To make sure it's an impartial test, each side should approve the test teams before they are in. Also make sure the test teams are using a serious setup with good loudspeakers, signal source etc. But i think most of the readers of the forum should pass that test with no problem.
So i have sent an e-mail to both hypex and lcaudio, asking if they are up for the test, and willing to sponsor the 6 modules. So far i got a very positive resonse from one side.
If you as a reader is interested in participating please drop me an e-mail.
All the best from
Lars Clausen
I personally think it could be a very interesting test, and i think many would like to see this test performed, by neutral / impartial users here from the forum.
My idea is to give each test team a stereo set of both modules to play with. Sponsored (to keep for the testers) by the producers. After some evaluation, they are supposed to post the test result here on the forum. To make sure it's an impartial test, each side should approve the test teams before they are in. Also make sure the test teams are using a serious setup with good loudspeakers, signal source etc. But i think most of the readers of the forum should pass that test with no problem.
So i have sent an e-mail to both hypex and lcaudio, asking if they are up for the test, and willing to sponsor the 6 modules. So far i got a very positive resonse from one side.
If you as a reader is interested in participating please drop me an e-mail.
All the best from
Lars Clausen
Yves Smolders said:OK, pins 4 and 8 are - and + voltage for the 8620 opamp. Maybe I'm dumb but I don't understand this thing needs no gnd connection - is this due to the differential input of that thing?
<<< needs to go back to electronics school
PS. I'm reading up on it now...
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/physics/ugrad/courses/mod_home/f31ylc/elecexpts/opamp/opamp.htm
Connect to the speakers sense terminal. Both your supplies or all your supplies grounds have to be common, You could do it at the star point but it might prove more beneficial at the sense terminal.
Yves Smolders said:OK, pins 4 and 8 are - and + voltage for the 8620 opamp. Maybe I'm dumb but I don't understand this thing needs no gnd connection - is this due to the differential input of that thing?
<<< needs to go back to electronics school
PS. I'm reading up on it now...
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/physics/ugrad/courses/mod_home/f31ylc/elecexpts/opamp/opamp.htm
Indeed, an opamp does not need a GND connection, so it basically has a + and - supply pin, a + and - input and an output, 5 pins, that's it. The other 3 pins are often not connected internally, some opamps use additional pins for offset compensation and other features.
Look at some datasheets of opamps and you can see.
Best regards
Gertjan
Lars Clausen said:I discussed yesterday the interesting project of letting 3 independent teams here from the forum make impartial A/B comparisons of XE700 vs UcD700.
I personally think it could be a very interesting test, and i think many would like to see this test performed, by neutral / impartial users here from the forum.
My idea is to give each test team a stereo set of both modules to play with. Sponsored (to keep for the testers) by the producers. After some evaluation, they are supposed to post the test result here on the forum. To make sure it's an impartial test, each side should approve the test teams before they are in. Also make sure the test teams are using a serious setup with good loudspeakers, signal source etc. But i think most of the readers of the forum should pass that test with no problem.
So i have sent an e-mail to both hypex and lcaudio, asking if they are up for the test, and willing to sponsor the 6 modules. So far i got a very positive resonse from one side.
If you as a reader is interested in participating please drop me an e-mail.
All the best from
Lars Clausen
E-MU 1820M source,
1.2kW Bose speakers at my disposal.
Shockingly honest reviewer
I expect it's impressions you want and not measurements, you're not selling measurements right?
Regards,
Chris
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