I'm sure there are also those that enjoy changing the points and condensers in their car's distributors every 5000 miles too. More power to them. 
Finally heard a full Danley installation in a local church in here Vancouver WA, USA. Jaw dropping awesome. Also pretty sure Danley would take money, if offered for a pair intended for lowly home stereo duty only.
Finally heard a full Danley installation in a local church in here Vancouver WA, USA. Jaw dropping awesome. Also pretty sure Danley would take money, if offered for a pair intended for lowly home stereo duty only.
Come on Steve, it's a hobby. Where's your sense of fun? No soft glow of nostalgia to warm your heart?
I've heard the entire Danley line at least twice at demos. And the SH50 in a somewhat hifi setting. I agree that in cabinet grade finish they'd well indeed. Tom Danley is rightly proud of their high fidelity sound. But Danley Sound Labs is focused on large venue sound, at which they excel. Marketing to the hi-fi niche is expensive and time consuming. BTDT. And it's a crowded sector. The SH50s are not a small speaker to fit into that crowd.
I've heard the entire Danley line at least twice at demos. And the SH50 in a somewhat hifi setting. I agree that in cabinet grade finish they'd well indeed. Tom Danley is rightly proud of their high fidelity sound. But Danley Sound Labs is focused on large venue sound, at which they excel. Marketing to the hi-fi niche is expensive and time consuming. BTDT. And it's a crowded sector. The SH50s are not a small speaker to fit into that crowd.
Danley's Unity concept is pretty cool - better and more coherent in its range than most single drivers. (That's an 18" woofer)
(even my K18 with just a slotted pipe tweeter sounds better than a lot of FR - but they would never believe that at the FR forum)
I should bi-amp the Unity (to midbass) and use it with either my RCA-Fan midbass horn or baby Classic for part of a mono rig
(even my K18 with just a slotted pipe tweeter sounds better than a lot of FR - but they would never believe that at the FR forum)
I should bi-amp the Unity (to midbass) and use it with either my RCA-Fan midbass horn or baby Classic for part of a mono rig
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I've been thinking about the M19 and wonder if the best thing in some ways is to just leave it alone as designed, save for a few things. Looking at the stock M19 pics added below, there really should be no need to build the open cavity to the horn box, and have all that extra detail and figuring to do. Not to mention the vibration that would be all over the 811 horn from the soundwaves of sharing the same cavity with the 416 driver, and the potential for air leaks etc.
I think if one can figure out the internal volume left over in the horn cab after the displacement of the 811 horn, and then add that volume to the 416 cab or just recalculate a larger box for the 416, then build the 416 and 811 horn as separate cabs. Add sand to the 811 horn cab or lead shot, and make sure to use the foam around the horn like Altec did, then set it atop the 416 cab keeping the same C/C spacing. Also account for the volume of some extra bracing and use void free Baltic Birch for both cabs.
This would bring the woofer and horn height up a bit compared to stock while still having the same volume for the woofer and design feel. Also adding a bit higher of a stand at the bottom of the 416 cab could bring the height up some more as well.
Anyhow then you'd have basically the same look as a stock 19 kicked up a few notches. Better braced, better ply, easier build, higher driver height, damped horn, more better
Edit: Also for the horn cab mount the 811 flush instead of inset like on the stock 19, that may solve some sq issues with reflections from the wooden edges or lips of the stock 19 cab, and make the build easier as well. One could still layer an inch or so of foam around the 811 horn without the inset design, and tweak the amount for best sq in room.
I think if one can figure out the internal volume left over in the horn cab after the displacement of the 811 horn, and then add that volume to the 416 cab or just recalculate a larger box for the 416, then build the 416 and 811 horn as separate cabs. Add sand to the 811 horn cab or lead shot, and make sure to use the foam around the horn like Altec did, then set it atop the 416 cab keeping the same C/C spacing. Also account for the volume of some extra bracing and use void free Baltic Birch for both cabs.
This would bring the woofer and horn height up a bit compared to stock while still having the same volume for the woofer and design feel. Also adding a bit higher of a stand at the bottom of the 416 cab could bring the height up some more as well.
Anyhow then you'd have basically the same look as a stock 19 kicked up a few notches. Better braced, better ply, easier build, higher driver height, damped horn, more better
Edit: Also for the horn cab mount the 811 flush instead of inset like on the stock 19, that may solve some sq issues with reflections from the wooden edges or lips of the stock 19 cab, and make the build easier as well. One could still layer an inch or so of foam around the 811 horn without the inset design, and tweak the amount for best sq in room.
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DaveCan,
Thanks for keeping me on the right track. I'm to easily distracted. Yes, so flush mounted horn and woofer front baffles, resized woofer cabinet (depth) for loss of cu/ft from separate horn cab and extra bracing. Closed back. Lead/sand filled horn cab. Same C to C spacing. BB ply. Time I get started. Now to find some 416.
Thanks for keeping me on the right track. I'm to easily distracted. Yes, so flush mounted horn and woofer front baffles, resized woofer cabinet (depth) for loss of cu/ft from separate horn cab and extra bracing. Closed back. Lead/sand filled horn cab. Same C to C spacing. BB ply. Time I get started. Now to find some 416.
I did a careful analysis way back when that Altec confirmed: net Vb = ~8.622152778 ft^3
99% of what makes the M19 special is its acoustical time alignment, XO, so proper horn/woofer offset in both the vertical and depth planes, baffle width must be maintained. These relative to room wall, floor as well as speaker depth affect it to a lesser amount, so I tend to ignore them as a much taller, more rigid, airtight cab's 'tone', in room response more than offsets them.
GM
Yeah, I did it in inches, then converted to ft before President Carter mandated a switch to the metric system and where I worked, job I did often demanded specs to several decimal points, so was just second nature to me. Started to post the various inch^3 calcs, but seemed a bit too much info.
I did find that Altec's horn, woofer estimates were quite close, which surprised us at the time.
GM
I did find that Altec's horn, woofer estimates were quite close, which surprised us at the time.
GM
model 19, questions
Hi there DC: Re: pictures in post #87 show the cabinet to be particle board insides? Also, the oak finished cabinet has a curious bottom vent with a cloth exterior cover. Is the front vent just a hole in the driver board, lined with a 3/4" plastic rim? The FR shown on the Model 19 specifications sheet posted (Google) do cover the general music audio range of 30 to 20K Hz, looks good to me. I never got that kind of bass response from a cloned VOT using stock Altec drivers, although the mid and high frequencies were acceptable to me. The cabinet was 3/4" plywood covered with 1/4" walnut paneling (1964 build). No cabinet now, but still have the stock drivers. ...regards, Michael
Hi there DC: Re: pictures in post #87 show the cabinet to be particle board insides? Also, the oak finished cabinet has a curious bottom vent with a cloth exterior cover. Is the front vent just a hole in the driver board, lined with a 3/4" plastic rim? The FR shown on the Model 19 specifications sheet posted (Google) do cover the general music audio range of 30 to 20K Hz, looks good to me. I never got that kind of bass response from a cloned VOT using stock Altec drivers, although the mid and high frequencies were acceptable to me. The cabinet was 3/4" plywood covered with 1/4" walnut paneling (1964 build). No cabinet now, but still have the stock drivers. ...regards, Michael
No problem cygnus x1, I was just typing out loud so to speak lol, I'm not the go to guy for all things Altec by any means, but seems some of these tweaks could make sense. I'd leave the 416 part of the cab the same as Altec did it, except for added height from using the horn cab volume now for the 416 cab. So the width would be the same as a stock M19, depth the same, and only height changes. I'd just work in the volume by going up in height and leave the other dims the same etc. This would bring the woofer up some which would be a good thing. Then build the box for the horn the same like the m19 but have the 811 flush mounted and a bit less depth to the box, so you can move the horn back some if needed without having overhang at the back of the 416 cab. It would be heavy with lead shot and be on spikes that mate to the top of the 416 cab. I was thinking on a way one could tweak the stock M19 cab while still using the all the same parts it used and crossover that are all available new at GPA, or on the used market.
Thanks GM! I was thinking keeping baffle width and cab depth the same as a stock M19, and then just build up the height, so any new added volume we just build up for it and it becomes a bit taller. Also yes keeping the proper horn/woofer offset in both the vertical and depth planes as well. I figured building the horn cab separate with the same width and height as the M19, but maybe an inch or so less in depth. This way it could be moved back atop the 416 box without hanging over the edge to align the horn to the woofer, as I'd front mount the 811 and put foam all around it.
That was a great calculation to know GM, awesome! net Vb = ~8.622152778 ft^3
So could one make the 416 cab keeping with the same dims as the M19, but add height to make it say 10 ft^3. Then add the separate horn cab on top and keeping the stock spacing, would the stock crossover still work if everything is kept the same save for the height? Also tuning would be a bit lower I imagine as well.
They used Walnut, Oak, Birch laminated to Particle board Core (45lb density)
Yes the front vent is just cut out from the front panel, and the bottom hole is where the speaker terminal cup goes.
As in the example of the Volti cab below, I'd build the M19 811 horn in it's own box filled with lead shot/sand.
As in the example of a stock Altec M19 below, The horn box would be separate as in the Volti, and the woofer box would retain all dims except for height to accommodate more volume etc.
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eBay always has several Altec 511B and 811B horns, sometimes with vintage Altec compression drivers. If you are patient, you may find local sellers of Altec parts on eBay and Craigs List.
The 511b, 811b sectorals are not constant directivity, and not biradial, but rather simple radials with an exponential profile rotated horizontally about a vertical axis.
MUST READ.... Zilch performed measurements on the Altec 511 and 811 horns with new 902 drivers....includes Zilch's comments on ringing.
Altec 9844-8B - Page 16
======================
The woodshop often sets the design direction.
1) Will you purchase 60" x 60" Baltic Birch?
2) Will you purchase 48" x 96" Shop, Cabinet, Maple grade plywood?
---you could save $100-$200 in wood cost by tweeking a cabinet size to efficiently lay out well on each sheet.
-------example: instead of 30" wide, a 29.5" wide would allow two tops/bottoms + saw cuts on a 60" baltic birch sheet.
---you could save $$ in wood cost if you purchase "shop grade" plywood for internal bracing.
====
Anyone shopping my Faital list, MCM electronics has a sale,
----$588--------Faital T-M (1.4" CD + 15")
FaitalPro 15PR400 woofer (Fs=35Hz, Mms=72g, Le=0.7mH, Qts=0.32) $209 @MCM
FaitalPro HF146 1.4" Neo Compression Driver Plastic dome $225
FaitalPRO LTH142 1.4" 60 x 50 Elliptical Tractrix Horn 4-Bolt. $54 @MCM
custom BW3 - LR4 crossover ~ $100
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take a look: New to the Forum (Altec Model 19 Fan)
Just a hole with black painted edge.
Which stock drivers?
Nice video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4OCNebAwy8&t=710s
I have two Altec 416-8C to recone, but I would like to have that sticky paint on the suspension...
I have two Altec 416-8C to recone, but I would like to have that sticky paint on the suspension...
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Thanks for the post. They were surprised that it measured so well in the anechoic chamber, both on axis and 30 degrees off axis. Bass was confirmed as very solid and tactile, low in distortion. There is mention of getting the midrange adjustments just right, leaving space between the box and the walls and needed to be at 3 meters or more listening distance. On the first page there was some criticism for lack of finesse in tonality for classical music. With non acoustic music the problem isn't noticeable.