Ideally, cab width needs to stay the same, ditto the c-t-c horn, woofer spacing, both due to the XO design, the rest is flexible.
GM
OK Lynn, I get the idea of the horn box. 
I looked at you graphs of the 416 and 515 in a horn like this and did my best to flatten them thru the passband, which can be done with 2 or 3 filters. See the graph below to see where you end up after flattening the response of each woofer in the horn box.
Once flattened, they have a -6dB point a bit lower than you might think.
I looked at you graphs of the 416 and 515 in a horn like this and did my best to flatten them thru the passband, which can be done with 2 or 3 filters. See the graph below to see where you end up after flattening the response of each woofer in the horn box.
Once flattened, they have a -6dB point a bit lower than you might think.
Attachments
Well another diversion. For one bottle of Clement Rhum and assistance in digging them out of a storage shed, I've been offered a set of EV SP-15b that need re-coned, but also a set of original EV cones still sealed in the box. They came from a avid EV fan who had the Patricians. EV was big here in SW Michigan as they were in Buchanan. He said there were a set for horns, not EV, he does not know what they are and no drivers? Maybe other goodies??
This may turn out to be more of a red headed step child, instead of a clone, at least until I can save up for a set of 416.
I have to ask you experts, since the FaitalPro driver is near the price of the GPA 902-8a, which one? Does it make a difference that the FaitalPro has plastic domes and the GPA aluminum? Never really liked plastic dome tweeters? Different size voice coils, etc.? Will the 902 work with a different horn than a 511 or 811? Is there a schematic for the 19 x-over available?
I still plan on building the modified 19 cabinet.
This may turn out to be more of a red headed step child, instead of a clone, at least until I can save up for a set of 416.
I have to ask you experts, since the FaitalPro driver is near the price of the GPA 902-8a, which one? Does it make a difference that the FaitalPro has plastic domes and the GPA aluminum? Never really liked plastic dome tweeters? Different size voice coils, etc.? Will the 902 work with a different horn than a 511 or 811? Is there a schematic for the 19 x-over available?
I still plan on building the modified 19 cabinet.
Once you acclimate to the sound of classic high-efficiency speakers you won't go back. Enjoy the journey down the rabbit hole!
Regarding the plastic (probably Mylar) diaphragm versus aluminum, they sound different in a compression driver than a direct-radiator dome tweeter. Some Mylar diaphragms might sound a little soft, but not bad at all. Dr. Geddes uses the B&C Mylar-diaphragm compression drivers with great success in his loudspeakers; I didn't hear any "plastic" coloration at all, they didn't sound soft, and there was oodles of dynamic range.
Regarding the plastic (probably Mylar) diaphragm versus aluminum, they sound different in a compression driver than a direct-radiator dome tweeter. Some Mylar diaphragms might sound a little soft, but not bad at all. Dr. Geddes uses the B&C Mylar-diaphragm compression drivers with great success in his loudspeakers; I didn't hear any "plastic" coloration at all, they didn't sound soft, and there was oodles of dynamic range.
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Attached stock model 19 crossover. Google search will find a few alternative crossovers which attempt to improve tweeter-woofer driver time alignment, and also provide additional controls to adjust the tweeter tone and woofer baffle step to the room. I also attached an example Faital HF146 - 15PR400 crossover to provide some comparison.
If your wife favors a 24" - 30" wide cabinet like the Altec Model 19, a wider modern 18" - 24" horn can produce favorable 90-horizontal x 40-vertical polars.
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H.H. Klinger in a book on DIY loudspeakers from the late 60s has a picture of a closed box bass bin of 160 litres with four Peerless 825 WG and a Altec 811B on top. Recommended x-over is 800 Hz 12 db/octave.
That is not a Model 19 clone obviously but might be a source of inspiration. Crossing over at 800 Hz instead of 1200 Hz might make it easier to find a suitable 15" woofer.
Since amplifier power is so much cheaper these days than when the Model-19 was designed a modern day implementation would probably be a three-way 15" + 12" + 811B with lots of watts and EQ.
That is not a Model 19 clone obviously but might be a source of inspiration. Crossing over at 800 Hz instead of 1200 Hz might make it easier to find a suitable 15" woofer.
Since amplifier power is so much cheaper these days than when the Model-19 was designed a modern day implementation would probably be a three-way 15" + 12" + 811B with lots of watts and EQ.
Thanks for the x-over schematics. I would like to stay with a 2 way to keep the x-over as simple as possible. In a finished basement "man cave" so lots of room for waveguides. As for amp power I'm currently using SE300b w/a MarkAudio 10p in the pencils. Just doesn't have the dynamic range I would like to have, but enjoying the seamless presentation (w/o the x-over). First thought was to go to a SE813 amp and/or add subwoofer. Did the subwoofer (just 10" powered A/V type). Just lusting for my old horns.
Are the SEOS-24 available somewhere? Checked diysoundgroup, but not listed (custom order?)?
Are the SEOS-24 available somewhere? Checked diysoundgroup, but not listed (custom order?)?
Interesting reading on the GPA site about the Altec successor to the Model 19:
https://greatplainsaudio.com/gpa-vintage-altec-ezine/altec-lansing-model-19-mr3-loudspeaker-never-2/
And here is one on eBay:
ALTEC LANSING M500 FULL RANGE SPEAKER SYSTEM 3154 MR994A 909 MAESTRO | eBay
https://greatplainsaudio.com/gpa-vintage-altec-ezine/altec-lansing-model-19-mr3-loudspeaker-never-2/
And here is one on eBay:
ALTEC LANSING M500 FULL RANGE SPEAKER SYSTEM 3154 MR994A 909 MAESTRO | eBay
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I love big horns. If I did not already have LaScala's and wanted a 2 way system I would seriously consider the Faital Cornscala by Bob Crites. I would design my own Xover network or possible consider an active crossover over the one Bob uses in the Cornscala designs. The only part of my original LaScala's I am using is the bass bin. My mid is an Altec 511b with a better treble horn and selenium driver. A simple 1st order Xover with resistor attenuation.
Cornscala Style D | Critesspeakers.com
The econowave with a good sub would be another alternative with a better WAF (wife acceptance factor.) When it comes to speakers the sales pitch has always been with small speakers "This little speaker sounds like a big speaker." I just went ahead and bought big speakers.
Cornscala Style D | Critesspeakers.com
The econowave with a good sub would be another alternative with a better WAF (wife acceptance factor.) When it comes to speakers the sales pitch has always been with small speakers "This little speaker sounds like a big speaker." I just went ahead and bought big speakers.
Sounds like the original application for the Klipsch LaScala.
That's right! +1I think those engineers didn't had in mind the M19 but a smaller ModelThe M500 is what the Altec engineers did moving on from the M19. A finished product for the home? No. But neither was the A7.
To me it looks like they are replacing the old tech 811 sectoral horn with the latest (at the time) constant directivity horn. Adapting what they learned on engineering the Model 14 to a Model 19 sized speaker.
But who knows for sure what they did 35 years ago to update then 35 year old technology. Your guess is as good as mine.
If I were in the market today, I'd buy a Danley SH, sit back and listen to music and not obsess about the old glory days of audio.
But who knows for sure what they did 35 years ago to update then 35 year old technology. Your guess is as good as mine.
If I were in the market today, I'd buy a Danley SH, sit back and listen to music and not obsess about the old glory days of audio.
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Right, when looking at polar responses combined with break-up modes, the 416 is limited to a 15" 800 Hz and ~625-30 Hz respectively, so the pioneers choosing 500 Hz based on audio power distribution was a good choice.
GM
Pfft! And what fun would that be?
Danley doesn't sell into the Hi-Fi market, but should, at least a couple of SH models.
As far as WAF it took me 10 years to convince her into furniture grade Model 19, once I was banished into the basement...so??? The Cornscala D is appealing, but would need to make it pretty! As for the 19 cabinets, would flared ports work better that just slots? Rounded edges on slots (if used) and cabinet? Front baffle flush- not sunk into front? All this common sense...I don't pretend to be a speaker designer? It's good to know ones limits. After getting blurry eyed reading Lynn's "beyond the Ariel" starting to consider an open back and the recycled cotton stuffing...another diversion...a travesty?
BTW I have to agree with Pano, the old glory days of audio were a H*&^ of a lot of fun!
BTW I have to agree with Pano, the old glory days of audio were a H*&^ of a lot of fun!