I have too.. althou not the A12.2p in the big box as Chris has. All 6 of them if you include A10.3eN, A10PeN, and A12.2PeN.
dave
I did also say "to express anything definite" and followed with "and my personal choice of 10Ps. blah blah...."
what I was trying to say is that in reply to kinku's
"I guess everyone is coming to an agreement here that at A10P is a better all round driver ?"
is that, no, no such consensus has been reached - and that we all have our own calculus for compromises
and yes, some of us have heard way too many drivers (stock and treated) in too many enclosures to keep track of with resorting to a spreadsheet - and that'd take the enjoyment out of it for me
Yea, but don't you remember that I said there are times I go for the A12P?
I have gotten into any number of threads like this where someone would like me to tell them which speaker will sound best to them. I can't tell you what will sound best to you. I can only tell you what sounds best to me.
Bob
I have gotten into any number of threads like this where someone would like me to tell them which speaker will sound best to them. I can't tell you what will sound best to you. I can only tell you what sounds best to me.
Bob
I think you wont squeeze more answer out of Bob, im actually surprised by how often he posted in this thread
he said:
a10p: calm music
a12p: more intense, probably the modern stuff, electronica
I think he like both for different kind of music like he said. Dave said that both the a10p and a12p sounds more alike then different. you wont have a tremendous difference and no matter which you choose, you will be satisfied and probably happy.
do you have subs?
what kind of music do you listen? that will tell you what you want
Thanks Bob.
Murphy I do not listen to music with lot of noises like rock but listen often to solo violin and vocals. Due to my sensitivity issues perhaps, I tend to like male vocals over female. I like solo guitar too. I would rather use a 3 way speaker system for orchestral music over a full range driver anytime.
I made a bass reflex design with FF125WK 6 months ago and since then hooked with full range for the music I mentioned above,except orchestra and soft rock.
I do not listen to POP and new generation songs with synthesized frequencies.Absolutely no to electronica.
I do not want to have room shaking bass but like the lower extension to perhaps 30Hz in +/- 2-3 db.Understanding that very few musical instruments goes down to 30Hz it is not a necessity at all.
I am actually shipping back an SVS SB12nsd tomorrow since I did not tolerate the phase issues, the subs comes with.Every time I hooked it up i got listening fatigue was not able to hear much of a detail than my monitor audio RS6 can bring in, except with some piano tracks.Sub sound so artificial to my ears.
k, well if you follow bob advise concerning what he listen to fits with your taste no? you would be happy with the a10p, BUT you want 30hz? then the a12p but no fullrange will do 30hz convincly, even 45 hz is a stretch if you want good SPL. but you can use sub up to 60-70-80 hz with no real problem if you learn to integrate it well in the system. so you could use the a10p.
Thanks Bob.
Murphy I do not listen to music with lot of noises like rock but listen often to solo violin and vocals. Due to my sensitivity issues perhaps, I tend to like male vocals over female. I like solo guitar too. I would rather use a 3 way speaker system for orchestral music over a full range driver anytime.
I made a bass reflex design with FF125WK 6 months ago and since then hooked with full range for the music I mentioned above,except orchestra and soft rock.
I do not listen to POP and new generation songs with synthesized frequencies.Absolutely no to electronica.
I do not want to have room shaking bass but like the lower extension to perhaps 30Hz in +/- 2-3 db.Understanding that very few musical instruments goes down to 30Hz it is not a necessity at all.
I am actually shipping back an SVS SB12nsd tomorrow since I did not tolerate the phase issues, the subs comes with.Every time I hooked it up i got listening fatigue was not able to hear much of a detail than my monitor audio RS6 can bring in, except with some piano tracks.Sub sound so artificial to my ears.
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It is a bit away from main topic. But I tried with a sub for last 2-3 weeks ,it does integrate with system but for some reason I did not like the sound reproduction that much. It does go down to 30 for sure.But may be it is the phase, I ended up getting headache each time I listened to the setup and finally packed it up.So I guess it is not for me.
There are VERY few speakers of any sort that really do 30 Hz (ignoring subs, and even a lot of those don't go that low)
-2/3 dB is meaningless in terms of audibility. Look at system F10 for a more meaningful number.
As i understand it few instruments go below 42 Hz.
dave
I do think so Dave,so 40hz is fine with me. I do not know how many of you have listened to FF125WK. I am doing all this forum research just to make sure the next Full range speaker,I pick should outperform FF125WK. If not I am not going for it. Simply I do not listen to anything other than FF125WK these days ,even though I doubt it goes below 70Hz.
FF125wk is good althou stock it has some resonance issues that drive some up the wall (amerolated with treatment), i have FF125 in 3 sets of boxes here and i can assure you any of the currently available A10s or A12 will outperform them at the cost of more $$$ and a bigger box (i have 6 A10 boxs (2 each A10.2, A10.3, A10p), and a pair of A12.2p boxes + Jeff's SuperPensils)
dave
dave
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Interesting thread. I suspect some are nervous about giving too strong an opinion since Mark doesn't want to see people picking favourites - he loves all his 'children' !
Anyhow, I have heard only the 10.3M and it was the first full range I've yet heard that I felt has actually delivered the real promise of a full range driver. I've found most full range drivers lacking somewhere and didn't generally live up to the expectations I got from reading around on the internet. But the 10.3 in the Pencil changed my opinion. It was so clear, smooth, detailed, and 'coherent' is the only way I can describe it. I would have liked a bit more time with it to be sure it wasn't tiring after a long listening session but what I did hear didn't raise any concerns. Now I'm considering building myself an enclosure around this driver.
I would like stronger bass, I have a 15" full range driver with real bass but the highs don't equal those I heard from the 10.3. I'll be watching this thread to see if any more people want to add their thoughts about the 12p, ideally in comparison with the 10.3 as I have direct experience of it.
Anyhow, I have heard only the 10.3M and it was the first full range I've yet heard that I felt has actually delivered the real promise of a full range driver. I've found most full range drivers lacking somewhere and didn't generally live up to the expectations I got from reading around on the internet. But the 10.3 in the Pencil changed my opinion. It was so clear, smooth, detailed, and 'coherent' is the only way I can describe it. I would have liked a bit more time with it to be sure it wasn't tiring after a long listening session but what I did hear didn't raise any concerns. Now I'm considering building myself an enclosure around this driver.
I would like stronger bass, I have a 15" full range driver with real bass but the highs don't equal those I heard from the 10.3. I'll be watching this thread to see if any more people want to add their thoughts about the 12p, ideally in comparison with the 10.3 as I have direct experience of it.
You CAN learn to integrate a sub in the system. just dont make it go too high. Maximum 80 hz if you only have one sub. A well integrated sub sounds good...
yup, murph's right - certainly not all "subs" ( frack I hate that word), integrate well - perhaps the key is in their FR & group delay 2 or 3 octaves above where you plan to cut them off - and brick wall filters that "deal with that competently" might not be without their own discernible artifacts?
or maybe I'm just cranky this morning?
or maybe I'm just cranky this morning?
Like I mentioned before I am not looking for bass shakiness and neither do I listen to electronica ,for which I may have to use sub. Integrating is another headache. I understand the limitations of FR single driver speakers. Subs are not always the answer. It muddies the stereo imaging especially used as single sub. Yeah they phase changes are not perceived at lower frequencies. Regardless I am not going for it.
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