advantages of karlsonator

[vacuphile]

I suppose this is only going to be used for bass service < 200 Hz, looking at these graphs.

Were does the upper decade come from? A midbass horn would be pretty large at this crossover frequency. So, would there be a separate box on top of this speaker to handle the mids and higgs with direct radiators?

 

[freddi]

those are ~ ground plane graphs with mic on the ground and off axis

with a speaker like EV15L the crossover can be over 1KHz - a K-tube tweeter will probably sound better than a horn and easy to make from pipe or even paper

the 115BK would be a good substitute for a midbass horn if you're running decent amounts of power


115bk sise view - internal depth ~19"

a few distortion points outdoors with EVM15L at 20vrms <img

Input impedance with EVM15L

Doug's Transylvania Power setup - 115BK and this coupler
are probably pretty similar internally - I think the Transylvania
product has a fancier reflector with an extra panel

Diy K-tube - ~1/8" starting gap, 5.3" long, based on a 11.6" major axis ellipse

elevation of a tube is typically about that of the woofer baffle - 20-30 degrees

a 12 inch K-coupler with K-tube on top would be pretty good too-

here's a standard K12 next to a Large Advent speaker

Even a 10" speaker would have pretty good power

Don't forget that for the most part, the Karlsonator for a given size speaker is compared to a regular
Karlson:

Tuned lower, larger, goes lower, may be smoother due to offset driver

 

[AlexQS]

Here's a great percussion piece. It's Latin music, and the youtube I'm sure is not the best recording. I own the CD. Only this one track is drum solo, otherwise this band Mana reminds me of a rock/country mix like the Eagles. This band Mana was featured performing with Carlos Santana also.

I'm betting this track would make a Karlson shine: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJi6ftbcX4

There's a lot of drums, toms, etc playing up and down. Anyone know what frequency range is covered here? I'm thinking 50hz to 250hz is my guess, but a musician may know better than I.

Check out this song, serious.

 

[freddi]

have to dig out my headphones later - one can use a big vent reflex sometimes to emphasize the "hit" region - power ability in the 110-220Hz octave is probably important - can't get it with tiny speakers - this might make a decent bass guitar speaker too


RCA-FAN (Bill Woods) design

 

[turk 182]

as someone who has mixed percussion in a sound reinforcement situation (PA) i can attest to the fact that the slap/snap component of conga's and tymbali's and even snare drums can be as high as 2 to 4 kilohertz but the fundamentals are in range you mentioned.

 

[freddi]

hey xrk971 - re:Eminator - did you get Le entered as 2.49mH? - it looked awfully extended

 

[xrk971]

I think I did. I recall noticing that it was a rather large number. I don't think I plotted anything past 1kHz. Are you saying you don't think it will even make it to 2k? I guess if one thinks about it like but in BSC coil that would indeed fall off at circa 700Hz. But maybe when it is part of the coil it's different.

 

[freddi]

dunno really - here's specs on a CTS woofer from one of my ~ 1966 Karlson X15 - Re is higher than the Eminator- IIRC this woofer made it to 2K - this was a doped paper surround speaker with a 54oz square magnet

for $34.50 shipped that Eminator is a good buy

Revc = 7.1648 ohms
Fs = 41.8850 Hz
Zmax = 153.1167 ohms
Qes = 0.2856
Qms = 5.8182
Qts = 0.2723
Le = 3.1031 mH (at 1 kHz)
Diam = 323.2150 mm ( 12.7250 in )
ConeArea =82048.9302 mm^2(127.1761 in^2)
Vas = 265.6837 L ( 9.3825 ft^3)
BL = 18.4180 N/A
Mms = 51.3835 g
Cms = 280.9952 uM/N
Kms = 3558.7798 N/M
Rms = 2.3242 R mechanical
Efficiency = 6.5893 %
Sensitivity= 100.1884 dB @1W/1m
Sensitivity= 100.6672 dB @2.83Vrms/1m

 

[freddi]

the violet trace is an Eminence made Martin 1844 15269 (Eminence #151269) in an X15 tuned low with mic laying on the ground - this driver has 2.5mH Le, a Santoprene surround, and a nice stiff cone

1844 violet trace, in a tapped pipe

Fs = 23.4 Hz
Qms = 11.63
Vas = 359.4 liters
Cms = 0.35 mm/N
Mms = 132.1 g
Rms = 1.67 kg/s
Xmax = 9.1 mm
Xmech = 15 mm
P-Dia = 329 mm
Sd = 850 sq.cm
P-Vd = 0.774 liters
Qes = 0.35
Re = 6.21 ohms
Le = 2.5 mH
Z = 8 ohms
BL = 18.56 Tm
Pe = 300 watts
Qts = 0.34
no = 1.269 %
1-W SPL = 93.18 dB
2.83-V SPL = 94.28 dB

 

[AlexQS]

I think I did. I recall noticing that it was a rather large number. I don't think I plotted anything past 1kHz. Are you saying you don't think it will even make it to 2k? I guess if one thinks about it like but in BSC coil that would indeed fall off at circa 700Hz. But maybe when it is part of the coil it's different.

It is a good buy, $34 that Freddi said seems right. Get it from eminence, free shipping too. Other vendors sell it for as much as $100.

I have four of them. 2 are together (in series=8 ohm) in a 330 Liter bass reflex box.

I've tried various low pass filters. In its bass reflex configuration I like it at -18dB/Oct at 250hz. It will certainly play higher, 500hz sounds fine and I think it may go higher than 700, but I haven't tried a filter that high. Listening to it alone, with no filter, sounds very bland.

Obviously it will have a totally different character in a ML-TQWT. Would Karlson designs pull more treble out of it too?

A few posts back, Freddi posted an old advertisement for "Laser" something. It looked like two Karlsonators, one atop the other with the top cabinet upside down. If one needs 8ohm this may be a way to do it. You won't gain or loose and sensitivity in series (actually you gain 3dB by having two drivers playing an identical signal, but you loose 3dB, because each driver sees only half the voltage). Running each with its own amp (biamping) you could gain 3dB. Running them in parallel you'd need a 2 ohm stable amp, but you could gain 6dB. I think it depends on how you count it though. i.e. 1 watt at 8ohm is 2.83 volts, but 1 watt at 4ohms is more than 2.83 volts (don't ask me how to do that math, chuckle)

 

[freddi]

the Karlsonator, by GregB, is K-coupler mass loaded line with offset driver

those may have been JBL K140 (?) in the LEECH version of Transylvania Power Company's K - I'll guess that K-coupler to be ~20" wide by 15" deep by 28" high and pretty much like its cousins Acoustic Control 115BK and KK-Audio's little Karlson cabinet. The price of the smaller coupler is about 1/3 octave higher cutoff than K15. My 115BK with EVM15L sounded pretty good on lead guitar. I doubt if a K would enhance a mellow driver much in the treble as far as balance goes.

I think the KK-Audio cabinets are close to the Transylvania product and the late Ernst Beck's BEC1 Karlson

here's the KK- I need a recommendation for a good carpet cement as the thick/stiff carpet is peeling at front

the KK-Audio cabinet, unlike my Acoustic Control 115BK has a lowpass choke shelf - it makes input Z more complex
and doesn't seem to help smoothness vs the simpler 115BK

I believe this blue cabinet owned by Franz Stolze, is a BEC-1 based on the Transylvania K

port area is less than my Acoustic 115BK or KK-Audio - I recommend experimenting with the port subjectively
as it not only affects tuning but also is part of the reflector - it looks to have a 3 panel reflector
like my KK

 

[AlexQS]

I worked in a LEED certified hotel once, it was a new built, and the environmentally friendly low VOC carpet glue began to fail within a few months,.. Maybe they're better now.

Honestly, if it were me I'd try gorilla wood glue to start,.. Mostly just because I have it on hand though.

 

[freddi]

are your reflex baffles/grills such so you can flip one woofer for push-pull operation? - that will cut even order distortion

 

[AlexQS]

are your reflex baffles/grills such so you can flip one woofer for push-pull operation? - that will cut even order distortion

Yes, I could reverse one. I could run a speaker wire out through the port tube. I haven't noticed much distortion, being tri-amped and high efficient, it feels like effortless good clean sound. I'd like to try it just to listen and see, I know there's probably some distortion there even if I haven't found it yet. But I think it would rate low on the wife approval factor.

Inlowsound.com has a tapped horn plan that looks really neat. It's footprint is quite a bit smaller than my bass reflex box. Think of the size of a clothes wash machine, but 4 feet tall, that's about 330 liters and a good analogy of what my BR boxes look like.

I could put a 15" in an 8' tall tapped horn with a much smaller footprint.

Then put the cx12 in a pair of K12's. They could be pulled out away from the corners and rear wall to reduce reflections and make a nice sound stage/stereo image.

I hope the weather holds. There's no heat in my shop. It will likely be December before I'll have a weekend to build K12 boxes; but I think that will be the place to start. Today I got powersupply board done, and all resistors populated into DAC/preamp. I think I'll be able to get capacitors and IC chips done tomorrow, and get the chassis layout measured. I really need to get that finished before starting on the k12 cabs.

 

[Mosquito]

Freddi, there where official Karlson plans for 8 inch drivers? I found only one reference in the AA forum, but it's an ImageShack broken link..

 

[freddi]

Karlsonator 8 plan

Factory 1960's Karlson Eight plan

Karlson's K8 is tuned around 95Hz - needs bass augmentation - GregB's Karlsonator 8 should play at least an octave deeper and probably smoother - depending upon the driver

I think scaling a K12 down to K8 size might work better than the "cupped" front chamber of the 1960's K8.

Eight inch speakers tend to work pretty well K12.

 

[Mosquito]

Thanks Freddi, following the trend of 12" in a K15 and 8" in a K12, I was thinking in a 6" in a K8, adjusting front chamber slots, and rear shelf/back wall distance for tuning. I'm so in love with the aspect ratio of vintage enclosures..

 

[pianolydia]

What about this new driver from Dayton!

There is a "New" Full Range driver from Dayton, that I think would sound great in a Karlsonator 6 or 8. The Dayton Audio PS65LP-4 6-1/2" Ultra Efficient Low Profile Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm 99 spl. 60-20k response. Res cone = 67.3 tell me your thoughts.....
Here are some specs:

Nominal Diameter 6-1/2"Power Handling (RMS)40 Watts
Power Handling (max) 80 Watts Impedance 4 ohms
Frequency Response 60 to 20,000 Hz Sensitivity 99.0* dB 2.83V/1m
Voice Coil Diameter 1"
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs)67.3 Hz DC Resistance (Re)3.2 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.39 mH Mechanical Q (Qms)3.85
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.26Total Q (Qts)0.24
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)0.6 ft.³Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.82 mm/N
BL Product (BL)6.0 Tm Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)6.8g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)4.0 mm Surface Area of Cone (Sd)122.7 cm²
Materials of Construction
Cone Material Poly Surround Material Cloth
Voice Coil Wire Material CCA Voice Coil Former Kapton® / Polyimide
Basket / Frame Material Steel Magnet Material Neodymium
Mounting Information
Overall Outside Diameter 6.50"Baffle Cutout Diameter 5.67"
Depth 2.48"Bolt Circle Diameter 6.16"
# Mounting Holes 4
Optimum Cabinet Size (determined using BassBox 6 Pro High Fidelity suggestion)
Sealed Volume 0.15 ft.³Sealed F3238 Hz
Vented Volume 0.14 ft.³Vented F3135 Hz
Dayton Audio PS65LP-4 6-1/2" Ultra Efficient Low Profile Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm
Brand Dayton Audio Model PS65LP-4
Part Number 295-348UPC848791003776
Product Category Midrange / Midbass Drivers & Full-Range Speakers Unit of Measure EA
Weight 3.05 lbs.

 

[freddi]

its polycone -qts may be overdamped (?) maybe not - here's a Karlsonator 6 prototype's tuning - the prototype might be a bit smaller than the plan - (I'll have to check)

a tweeter would have to rolled in then you have the peak up very high

my rough prototype sounded good with an old de-whizzered FE164 and L.Cao F6. F6 has a high qts so attack on slapped upright bass was less than the stronger motor Fostex. F6 is very sensitive at ~98dB or better

 

[korpberget]

Have anyone tried building a Karlsonator with oval full range speakers?
Would the shape of an oval speaker be a problem to the shape of the front?
Should the ovals be mounted horizontal or upright?
In comparison an upright position is not to far from two drivers, one over the other.
Then again - I'm a noob. With some nice vintage Seas 6"x 9".