No worries Mondo, that's what I'm here for. 
Thanks for the data. That not very loud, but I understand the time of day constraints. I'd say your peaks are just above 3 volts, or a little more than 1W if your speakers are 8 ohms.
Not hard for just about any amp. At party levels the voltage will go up fast!
Thanks for the data. That not very loud, but I understand the time of day constraints. I'd say your peaks are just above 3 volts, or a little more than 1W if your speakers are 8 ohms.
Not hard for just about any amp. At party levels the voltage will go up fast!
No worries Mondo, that's what I'm here for.
Thanks for the data. That not very loud, but I understand the time of day constraints. I'd say your peaks are just above 3 volts, or a little more than 1W if your speakers are 8 ohms.
Not hard for just about any amp. At party levels the voltage will go up fast!
that's probably close, 85dB isn't quiet its just not loud
and unfortunately for me the family downstairs don't appreciate sine waves I should probably measure during the day sometime
A more powerful amplifier would be nice, but the ones ive had in the past have sounded far too bass lean, harsh treble. I had a Technics 'H-class' 5.1 Decoder amp, wonderful thing, more than enough power, sounded crass. The cambridge audio A1 is budget, but still sounds better. im considering butchering the two I have and using as power amps in some kind of active set up, or just buying a Teac twin zone amp ive seen recently.
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I'm not so sure 6 ohm is correct. The only 801 impedance curves I've seen published were done by Stereophile on an 801 Matrix, rather a different speaker. I would not expect an acoustic suspension speaker and a port loaded speaker to have the same impedance curves even with similar drivers.
However for my own curiosity I think it would be fun to measure the 801 impedance curves myself. I probably should get a current shunt. I'd been thinking about bridging the amp, but if the speaker impedance is too low bridging wouldn't help.
...her voltage needs stand.
This is such a cool thread.
The integrated I'm currently using does not have a ohm taps so not sure about that. I'll switch to my Luxman 50CA10 amp and try it next.
Test track Toots and The Maytals - Bam Bam.
I put my spl meter on the couch c weighted.
Room 15ftL 13.7ftW 11.5ftH
Music was 104-114DB tone measured 3.2
This is pants flapping drink'n smoke'n with girls dancing around.
3.2x3.2=10.24
Music was 91-99db tone measured .5
This is just normal sitting around listening to tunes.
.5x.5=.25
Dang all I need is a good 10.24 watt amplifier to keep the dancing girls happy. I thought my speakers were efficient but that is just goofy.
The integrated I'm currently using does not have a ohm taps so not sure about that. I'll switch to my Luxman 50CA10 amp and try it next.
Test track Toots and The Maytals - Bam Bam.
I put my spl meter on the couch c weighted.
Room 15ftL 13.7ftW 11.5ftH
Music was 104-114DB tone measured 3.2
This is pants flapping drink'n smoke'n with girls dancing around.
3.2x3.2=10.24
Music was 91-99db tone measured .5
This is just normal sitting around listening to tunes.
.5x.5=.25
Dang all I need is a good 10.24 watt amplifier to keep the dancing girls happy. I thought my speakers were efficient but that is just goofy.
Welll They are PWK's last project before he passed. The consumer Jubilee was trashed when he died. The new owner of Klipsch Corp didn't think there was a market for another large consumer horn system.... Sad. I hope the ghost of PWK is haunting him. The LF did survive to the pro cinema line.
LF is a folded bass horn with two 12 inch drivers. 30hz-550hz
HF is a modified tractrix. It is the last HF PWK designed and is a prototype. I had to sacrifice virgins for it. It is using a 1.4 B&C DE82. 550hz-18khz.
Crossover passive HF is simple but LF has some extra stuff.
Supposed to be between 104-109db1w1m??
I'm going to try the luxman next.
I've been a lurker on this forum for a long time. Good stuff here.
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@iain42 with the way cool prototype Jubilees...
Well, that explains it! A BIG KLIPSCH design! Looks really nice.
I'm actually conducting a much more moderately priced taste test these days. The two contestants are a pair of Snell Type J/III (91dB/1W/1m) and a pair of Klipsch kg4.5 (95dB/1W/1m) with damped cabinet walls, Crites titanium diaphragms and revised crossovers.
Right now the kg4.5's have the edge, but that's kind of a play on words. I always find Klipsch speakers kind of "edgy" sounding in the treble. Just a bit like tamed PA speakers. For moderately loud in my living room, they need about 2.5V from the test tones (6.25 watts).
The Snell J's sound more lifelike, more relaxed with classical music and more delicate acoustic stuff. For moderately loud in my living room, they need a good 3.4V from the test tones (11.5 watts).
Both are really good, and have soundly beaten out a pair of Tannoy System 8 NFM's I got recently.
My favorite amp is a push-pull 2A3 thing, which makes 6 watts per channel. My other tube amp is a push-pull 6L6-triode thing, which makes 11 watts per channel. Convenient, eh? The problem is that the 6L6 amp has a little "edge" to the treble that the 2A3 amp doesn't have. The kg4.5's work best with the 2A3 amp, but get kind of sizzly-sounding with the 6L6 amp. And around and around we go, until I finally get my act together and bi-amp.
System matching conundrum... Pano's test made things very clear, though. Very cool thread, this.
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Well, that explains it! A BIG KLIPSCH design! Looks really nice.
I'm actually conducting a much more moderately priced taste test these days. The two contestants are a pair of Snell Type J/III (91dB/1W/1m) and a pair of Klipsch kg4.5 (95dB/1W/1m) with damped cabinet walls, Crites titanium diaphragms and revised crossovers.
Right now the kg4.5's have the edge, but that's kind of a play on words. I always find Klipsch speakers kind of "edgy" sounding in the treble. Just a bit like tamed PA speakers. For moderately loud in my living room, they need about 2.5V from the test tones (6.25 watts).
The Snell J's sound more lifelike, more relaxed with classical music and more delicate acoustic stuff. For moderately loud in my living room, they need a good 3.4V from the test tones (11.5 watts).
Both are really good, and have soundly beaten out a pair of Tannoy System 8 NFM's I got recently.
My favorite amp is a push-pull 2A3 thing, which makes 6 watts per channel. My other tube amp is a push-pull 6L6-triode thing, which makes 11 watts per channel. Convenient, eh? The problem is that the 6L6 amp has a little "edge" to the treble that the 2A3 amp doesn't have. The kg4.5's work best with the 2A3 amp, but get kind of sizzly-sounding with the 6L6 amp. And around and around we go, until I finally get my act together and bi-amp.
System matching conundrum... Pano's test made things very clear, though. Very cool thread, this.
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@Rongon yeah I like the used klipsch people ignore like the chorus II or forte II or CF line or kg line or my fave the klf30. I love the klipsch bass horns as you can put what you want on top if you don't like the old tweeter/mid. I'm looking for a pair of klipsch tscm to put some big round horns on. Should be fun. I may finally try biamping perhaps a triode 50 on the hf and the luxman on the lf just. I am kinda of lazy I just like spinning vinyl more than dicking around with my stereo lol...
Ok this is weird. The first was done with the NAD C326bee. I like to have one new piece of gear. The measurements I just took were with the Luxman KMQ60 30wpc tube amp set to 8 ohm. The preamp is a Slagle autoformer volume control. Any way here is what I got this time... I got as close as I could to previous listening levels.
Luxman / Slagle / 8ohm tap
Music was 104-115 tone measured 2.4
2.4x2.4=5.76
Music was 91-99db tone measured .3
.3x.3=.09
NAD no ohm taps. I guess it has some autodetect voodoo.
Music was 104-114DB tone measured 3.2
This is pants flapping drink'n smoke'n with girls dancing around.
3.2x3.2=10.24
Music was 91-99db tone measured .5
This is just normal sitting around listening to tunes.
.5x.5=.25
Ok this is weird. The first was done with the NAD C326bee. I like to have one new piece of gear. The measurements I just took were with the Luxman KMQ60 30wpc tube amp set to 8 ohm. The preamp is a Slagle autoformer volume control. Any way here is what I got this time... I got as close as I could to previous listening levels.
Luxman / Slagle / 8ohm tap
Music was 104-115 tone measured 2.4
2.4x2.4=5.76
Music was 91-99db tone measured .3
.3x.3=.09
NAD no ohm taps. I guess it has some autodetect voodoo.
Music was 104-114DB tone measured 3.2
This is pants flapping drink'n smoke'n with girls dancing around.
3.2x3.2=10.24
Music was 91-99db tone measured .5
This is just normal sitting around listening to tunes.
.5x.5=.25
I guess I should try out some flea amps. I honestly don't listen up to 114 but every know and then I have a party and people get nutty with the volume. Does anyone make a breathalyzer for stereo equipment?
This thread is very informative. I have a friend who freaks over not having enough power. Can't wait to do this at his place.
Yeah, I was happy to find that my little monsters provide the voltage swing I actually need. 4V (16 watts) would be overkill.
Also, single-ended amps might not be happy driving those big Klipsch speakers. PWK didn't design the speakers to have flat impedance curves -- he (like almost all speaker designers) expected his speakers to be driven by modern amps with close-to-zero output resistance. Since SE amps have high output resistance (often a couple of ohms), the frequency response of the amp will be changed by the changing impedance of the speaker load.
My solution is to use a push-pull, flea power, triode amp.
Eli Duttman's El Cheapo should fill the bill nicely.
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Also, single-ended amps might not be happy driving those big Klipsch speakers. PWK didn't design the speakers to have flat impedance curves -- he (like almost all speaker designers) expected his speakers to be driven by modern amps with close-to-zero output resistance. Since SE amps have high output resistance (often a couple of ohms), the frequency response of the amp will be changed by the changing impedance of the speaker load.
My solution is to use a push-pull, flea power, triode amp.
Eli Duttman's El Cheapo should fill the bill nicely.
--
Well funny you mention that because I came here trying to figure out how to measure an impedance curve of my speakers. I was considering adding a zobel to the network if it came to that. The older klipsch with simple crossovers do very well with SET. I ran Belles and Khorns on 300Bs and they were very nice.
Thanks again guys.
Well, actually... Plotting an impedance curve is different. I'm just going by the DC resistance of the voice coils (the Re), as an approximation.
Here's a link to an article that describes plotting the impedance curve:
Measuring Loudspeaker Driver Parameters
Here's a picture of the test setup described in that article:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You might be able to use a CD player with a bunch of test tones instead of the signal generator. It will make a coarser plot than the infinitely variable signal generator, but probably good enough for this purpose.
Also here, in the section "Electrical Impedance"
Measuring Loudspeakers, Part One Page 4 | Stereophile.com
(I don't know how valid that one is. Sure is wordy...)