Hello guys... j.a.g.
"As I mentioned back on the first page, I can consistently beat tapped horns max spl with a front loaded horn of the same size, with the same low frequency rolloff, and the front loaded horn will actually have smoother response too"
Could you give the above a try??.... let this be the tapped horn:
TH 812 | Danley Sounds Labs | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
I would scream for joy!! if it is possible, and would love to start buiding tomorrow,, use whatever drivers you think it needs.. I'll try to get my hands on em....
It would be lower than the lab, louder than the lab, and probably needs a few drivers... see my first post...
shal we give it a shot... Jan...
"As I mentioned back on the first page, I can consistently beat tapped horns max spl with a front loaded horn of the same size, with the same low frequency rolloff, and the front loaded horn will actually have smoother response too"
Could you give the above a try??.... let this be the tapped horn:
TH 812 | Danley Sounds Labs | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
I would scream for joy!! if it is possible, and would love to start buiding tomorrow,, use whatever drivers you think it needs.. I'll try to get my hands on em....
It would be lower than the lab, louder than the lab, and probably needs a few drivers... see my first post...
shal we give it a shot... Jan...
By my calculation your enclosure is about 1000 liters, a tapped horn this size tuned for 25Hz (420cm total path) will go a long way: 131dB from a single cab, and 142dB from 4 cabs. And that's flat down to 25Hz. (High pass needed around 22Hz). A real rudimental Hornresp input to get people started - not yet adapted in any way to fit the exact dimension requirements, just same overall size.
4 Cabinets:
Can I have more details please? Preferably the Hornresp input screen?
I'm assuming these cabs each have 2 drivers and it's shown at xmax in 2pi space, yes? If so, it's close to the same size as my design, ~ same tuning, and a few db more on the low end but it uses 2x as many drivers and looks like it will sound overly boomy unless you listen to it in an open field.
Hello guys... j.a.g.
"As I mentioned back on the first page, I can consistently beat tapped horns max spl with a front loaded horn of the same size, with the same low frequency rolloff, and the front loaded horn will actually have smoother response too"
Could you give the above a try??.... let this be the tapped horn:
TH 812 | Danley Sounds Labs | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
I would scream for joy!! if it is possible, and would love to start buiding tomorrow,, use whatever drivers you think it needs.. I'll try to get my hands on em....
It would be lower than the lab, louder than the lab, and probably needs a few drivers... see my first post...
shal we give it a shot... Jan...
Sure, I'll sim whatever you want. Do they have to be 12 inch drivers? Those 18's Art recommends look very nice for this bandwidth and you can use only 4 of them instead of eight 12's. Does the cab limit (per cab) have to be as shown in the drawing in post #1?
But to be clear, you can't compare a Hornresp sim directly to specs from a marketing brochure, if you want to compare directly you would have to simulate the commercial design as well. (I'm not going to do that.)
Thanks, I didn't even look at the link, for some reason I thought it was a link to a Hornresp tutorial, not your inputs.
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Jan,
As you can see in the wire frame picture posted in #19, the TH 812 could be made as two separate enclosures, which would make them easier to handle and give more stacking possibilities, and the potential to do cardioid arrays with less size.
The drivers are B&C
Why don't we agree on a driver (and number of drivers used), a max cab size and max mouth size, and you (or James) can throw up a tapped horn model and I'll do a FLH model.
j.a.g. i just thought that 8x12" would be more powerful, have more cone stability, and be phisically smaller (handy for a folding) but as I said use whatever achieves the best result... 18's are fine with me..
I must admit that those TC drivers that DrDyna came up with look very serious? both the 12's and the 18's...
That cab limit from post 1 is smaller than the th812... please feel free to use the th812 size.. for that performance it will be hihgly needed I guess...
It is a long time ago since I was so exited.. now I am truly eager to see some sims... but take the time!!
Jan
I must admit that those TC drivers that DrDyna came up with look very serious? both the 12's and the 18's...
That cab limit from post 1 is smaller than the th812... please feel free to use the th812 size.. for that performance it will be hihgly needed I guess...
It is a long time ago since I was so exited.. now I am truly eager to see some sims...
but take the time!!Jan
mouth size: the th812 is 28x60inch on the "small" side, if that where the mouth it could be used standing up and lying on the side..
Exact type of drivers I leave that up to you the specialists... I think 8x12 or 4x18 will be needed for these specs.
J.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ok, since you are excited let's speed things up a bit. Again, this is only a 10 minute model, but it serves well as an example for my platform to try to convince you that using this many drivers is a bit ... weird.
So we've got 4 cabs here, shown in 2 pi. Each is 1360 liters net, which will amount to ~ equal volume as a single Danley TH812. It uses 4 of the 18 inch B+C drivers I used in the last model per cab. Total power PER CAB to get them to their 12mm xmax is something stupid approaching 10000 watts.
As you can see, it's loud as all hell, this stack of 4 is probably powerful enough to break your building. But the POWER is coming from the drivers and the amps, not the horn. Everything about the horn is grossly undersized, from the rear chambers to the flare and right to the mouth. As a result, the flare has to be a weird shape to get anything resembling flat response.
Using this many drivers in a horn this small is a bit like using a sledgehammer to swat flies but if that's what you want I'm not going to argue. Personally I'd use few drivers and more cabs.
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Remember, those specs are manufactured by the marketing dept (and while Danley's marketing dept isn't as bad as some), it won't model anything like the specs suggest as far as max spl.
i like flh's ,it would be a great project,
however is also agree with art to bild few th's
like the cinemonster for example.
however is also agree with art to bild few th's
like the cinemonster for example.
My quick design - 1360 liter net (per box) + wood and dead spaces (corners) is going to be close to the size of a single TH812. EACH of my boxes is the same size as the 812.
I don't even have it anymore, I didn't save it, it was only a quick 10 minute job just to get an idea if we are going in the right direction.
All the Hornresp inputs are shown, so I'll make you a deal. Try entering the inputs into Hornresp and see if you can run the sim as it is, if you input it all exactly as shown you will see a single cab response.
If you can't make it work I'll either coach you through it or just do the sim for you, your choice. I just want you to try.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here's one more pic to look at, this is a different design, 4 cabs in 2 pi, 1222 liters each, each with 4 of the B+C 18's (same ones as before). Same crazy high power level too.
This is a bit smaller AND has a bit more excursion limited max spl AND a more realistic throat area (not as much compression - it's about 3:1 now). AND smoother response. AND it uses an actual real mathematically defined horn flare, unlike the last design I threw up. This is a better design than the last one.
But it's a single flare hyperbolic exponential design (which can't be made accurately with flat wood products), not a segmented horn, and it's Nd (driver and throat chamber come before the horn) which is not really realistic since the front chamber IS going to be part of the horn whether you simulate it as such or not - and due to the large number of large drivers the front chamber is going to be long so it will be a significant part of the horn.
This is a better design than the last one but because of the fact that it's a constant flare (not shown as a segmented horn) and the Nd issue it isn't exactly possible to actually build this.
If this were my project I'd throw this into Akabak to make it more realistic and refine it, but I'm still just throwing out ideas here. (In fact if this were my project I'd obsess over every single little detail from start to finish, considering how much time and money this is going to cost, but I digress...)
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