I have listened to the Kontra vs. Alpair 10 (2-way vs. fullrange). The Markaudio Alpair 10 ripped the Kontra apart. Not that the Kontra is a bad speaker but in terms of rhythm, pace, transient response, space, homogeneity, flow and smoothness the Alpair wins hands down. The Kontra was not nervy but somewhat unnatural.
A lot of people here are trashing B&Ws, I can't understand why.
I'm a full range supporter myself. And as a matter of fact, I can hear that they are much much superior to B&Ws that I have heard in the past. However, you can do a lot worse than B&W. They have superior off-axis curves, measure pretty flat and can go quite low for their size. If I had to manufacture a speaker for the masses, which is small in size, does bass fairly well, and can tolerate large SPL levels, have it last a lifetime, I would probably arrive at something similar. It is a product for the masses, and it does quite well for what it is intended.
Full range drivers have their problems - lack of bass, uneven top end, but their evils are balanced by the good things -coherance, midrange, and so on.
I'm a full range supporter myself. And as a matter of fact, I can hear that they are much much superior to B&Ws that I have heard in the past. However, you can do a lot worse than B&W. They have superior off-axis curves, measure pretty flat and can go quite low for their size. If I had to manufacture a speaker for the masses, which is small in size, does bass fairly well, and can tolerate large SPL levels, have it last a lifetime, I would probably arrive at something similar. It is a product for the masses, and it does quite well for what it is intended.
Full range drivers have their problems - lack of bass, uneven top end, but their evils are balanced by the good things -coherance, midrange, and so on.
RA7 - I think your point is well taken. Analyzing gear, it's tempting to compare positives with negatives, but it takes extra perspective to compare positives with positives as you have done.
I used to think I was a 'full range supporter' but came to realize that I was more of a 'passive crossover detractor'.
I now use 'full range design logic' along with digital FIR crossover software and multiple amps and drivers. So with the ease of changing a configuration file in software, I can swing from full range simplicity to time-modified multi-everything. ...without the requisite of being brilliant as are many of our esteemed contributors! Meanwhile, I'm making another pair of FurgalHorns in cherry - this pair for my son. I'm trying a "mini-baffle" - beveled about 15 degrees right up to the driver and only 1.5" larger than the cab width. Nothing special - nice use for a prime scrap of hardwood. Any comments on the sonic effects of the Fostex screen grille for the FE126? I'll probably try it both ways in any case...
Cheers!
Frank
I used to think I was a 'full range supporter' but came to realize that I was more of a 'passive crossover detractor'.
I now use 'full range design logic' along with digital FIR crossover software and multiple amps and drivers. So with the ease of changing a configuration file in software, I can swing from full range simplicity to time-modified multi-everything. ...without the requisite of being brilliant as are many of our esteemed contributors! Meanwhile, I'm making another pair of FurgalHorns in cherry - this pair for my son. I'm trying a "mini-baffle" - beveled about 15 degrees right up to the driver and only 1.5" larger than the cab width. Nothing special - nice use for a prime scrap of hardwood. Any comments on the sonic effects of the Fostex screen grille for the FE126? I'll probably try it both ways in any case...Cheers!
Frank
Oh yes, to get rid of the xover in multiples one must use more amps. I could not go there cos I'm in deep love with my SET's.
I'm sure they're pristine! Amusingly, 'full range design logic' works nicely with JBL 2235s. ...but not a good match for SETs...
That's sooooooooooooo true...
I have listened to a €16.000 B&W 5.1 setup - it sounded like a pile of sh*t. My friends Pioneer SACD player & Creek amp & Triangle Titus (nearly a fullranger) for €800 alltogether sounded like heaven in comparison.
The B&W "studio monitors" are a bad joke. Disgusting highs, smeared mids (typical B&W) and overblown, muddy bass. Completely unacceptable by any means - OK maybe good for a techno party. To say overpriced would be far too diplomatic. An old pair of 3/5's sounded like a dream in comparison.
The B&W floorstanders are champions - champions in smearing the mids and in killing definition.
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Is this the new papercone Alpair? More info please.
I have a pair of 6's in my office, they sure sound great. Only thing is: I always hear the aluminium cone.
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They are like any other fanboys. Remember the Bose bashers? Inappropriate in this thread as the 901 are sort of full range
I also think that the cheap B&W are quite annoying but most cheap commercial speakers are. And really not good value for money. Agreed.
Still, i would really love to know which full range speaker can fill up a large room with sound, playing full scale music at realistic levels as convincingly as an 801N with proper amplification. So, maybe baroque, chamber and girls with guitars played in a cellar are just the bee's knees on full rangers but that's not what most people want. One set of compromises is traded for another. Isn't this always the case in audio?
As for myself i just refuse to own speakers which will severely limit my taste in music.
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They are like any other fanboys. Remember the Bose bashers? Inappropriate in this thread as the 901 are sort of full range
I also think that the cheap B&W are quite annoying but most cheap commercial speakers are. And really not good value for money. Agreed.
Still, i would really love to know which full range speaker can fill up a large room with sound, playing full scale music at realistic levels as convincingly as an 801N with proper amplification. So, maybe baroque, chamber and girls with guitars played in a cellar are just the bee's knees on full rangers but that's not what most people want. One set of compromises is traded for another. Isn't this always the case in audio?
As for myself i just refuse to own speakers which will severely limit my taste in music.
on balance, rather well stated - but how does any of us know "what most people want"? , either in terms of "verisimilitude" or "realistic levels"?
yes, the cited example of 801N with "proper amplification" can certainly be impressive at full tilt on dense program material, but for me at least it lacks the organic musicality, soundstage, imaging and intimacy of say the Sonus Faber Elipsa in the same local dealer's showroom.
Well put, valid points. My slightly different take based on the same premise is that I cannot own only one pair of speakers
No. Only the Alpair6 has made it to paper status, the new Alpair6P. I too was able to hear something with the aluminum alloy (and object somewhat to the ones i have heard, JX92, Alpair 5, 6, 10 (A6 had the least), CHR70.1), but in the new gen2 multiformed cones (A7, A12, A10.2 and i'll guess the new A6M) Mark, to my ear, has eliminated this distraction. The multiformed alloy cones set a new state of the art for metal coned drivers IMO.
dave
The DM302 (?) perhaps being an exception. I lived with a pair of these (with helper woofers) for sometime.
This is what FAST is all about. Really a 2-way, they are still considered part of the FR community. I fully expect my next large speaker project to be able to have huge scale.
dave
My speakers of choice are indeed SF and largely for the same reasons. Still, the thread threatened to degenerate into B&W bashing which, although not a huge fan i find rather undeserved.
The fact that B&W have nearly cult following, although clearly overpriced, seems to indicate that they are successfull at meeting most people's expectations.
The afore mentioned Elipsa were the 1st big buck speaker at the local hifi emporium to capture my attention. I listened to them for hours. I would really have liked to get them in the same room as a set of FonkenPrime to see if they did mids on the same level, but i wasn't about to borrow them, and it wouldn't have been a good idea to bring my Fonkens into the shop.
dave
Note: Chris & i have both worked at said emporium, myself being 1 of 3 that actually put it on the map.
Completely agree with the above. The target audience seems to be happy, and they are quite large in number, which must mean they've got something right.
I've lived with a pair of DM302s for quite sometime too. Now, I have a pair of 603s and I like to listen to them from time to time to see how colored the sound of the full rangers I'm listening to is. They're simply not as much fun as the full rangers, but they do have qualities that I would want in my next speaker.
They are like any other fanboys. Remember the Bose bashers? Inappropriate in this thread as the 901 are sort of full range
I also think that the cheap B&W are quite annoying but most cheap commercial speakers are. And really not good value for money. Agreed.
The cheap ones are the best from B&W!
Fanboy of what? There can't be too much bashing of Bose & B&W...hehehe
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