These are not the Silmic ll that was sold at a consumer level as described in the title of this thread.
The Silmic ARS sound much better than the Silmic ll which had a hole in the midrange.
I used them for a few years until one day I noticed that some female vocals were actually disappearing (cutting in/out) from the song I was listening to.
Here's a good reason why you should listen and whilst being fully aware of your brains ability to mislead. Trust your ultimate measurement tool, its very, very good.
I have been experimenting with parallel mains filters, using a box to plug separately into a spare mains plug (I'm running out, even though I went OTT when wiring to room up !). The filters in this case are just caps across the line in differential mode.
So I have built 2 very similar, one using more Panasonic X rated. My brother built a similar unit but in a different box and slightly different capacitor choice but again similar. All have the same 30uf and 12uf caps. the cascade down to 10uf, whilst not identical, the cascade adds up to 52-54uf and is just differential mode.
Do they work, yes. Are they transformational. definitely not, BUT they have qualities I didn't expect. Sonically the differences are there but small, musically they seem bigger. I keep engaged and it seems to continue to draw you in musically as opposed to somehow doing that less or the reverse without them. Here we go my brain again. How can that be a thing ?!
Okay why do I say that ? Because it's actully harder than usual to evaluate what they do and it IS in some respects subtle. So lots of A-B by myself and I am comfortable I can hear my version 1, vs my version 2 and none and both V1 and V2 together. So my brother was here at the weekend with his version, so now we have three boxes to listen and compare. All boxes have had over a month of burn in and this DID make a perceivable difference.
So on Saturday evening, 1/2 glass of wine in. We set them up plugged in behind the listing equipment and agree a blind test shoot out. Richard my brother will 'name' them A,B and C, then play A, then B then C. I then ask for any after that point. I cant see, but as its possible I get a feeling about the location of the switches and possibly guess which is which with some known or subliminal information, we agree he will move around turning on and off more than he needs to. All plus are within 18" of each other anyway and they are nearly directly behind the sofa. I also covered my ears as he made the changes to avoid distraction anyway.
I listen and request a number of changes, then conclude which I prefer and why. I also say I am 99% sure I can actually hear which is which. My reasons why were aligned with the my listening before. So getting this wrong now would be embarrassing as not only would I be wrong but I would have found differences that were clearly inconsistent. The differences I am hearing with these 'swaps' are way less than any power supply capacitor. Which is more than enough for me not to need to A-B IMO. Also I dont want to solder and resolver or build a mule every time I make a change.
I was nervous and to some extent surprised I was 100% accurate. I got the why's right and which was which, given how small the changes are between them it goes to show how good our hearing is. So how on earth would I measure this ? I have no doubt they would be indistinguishable the capacaitance is almost the same, the values are either the same or extremely close (I ran out of 10nf and used a 22nf in one version) I can hear differences between the same design with some of the caps being a different make. This is a parallel mains filter !!!! not even in line... or in a any of the 9 power amps we are listing to, the 4K player, the miniDSP, the preamp and processor.
This has reminded me to have confidence in your own judgement. How many either have very low resolution systems, so badly set up they aren't even close to hearing subtle benefits or are so convinced something wont make a difference ignore what they here ?
Do I think I have golden ears, NO ! Im nearer 60 than 50, I spent many hours in my youth listing to Thelonious Monk at 120db peaks through 105db/W horns. BUT I do take care to evaluate carefully and are very self critical, and I do go back however painful if I am not sure.
Could I walk in 1-2 hours later and tell you which one is plugged in, I seriously doubt it. But I have no doubt I'd get it right again with A,B,C blind test.
I await for the flack, the statistical probability, the fact that it's not double blind, my brother lied and so on....
Oh and I do really like Silmics, but none obviously used in parallel filters !
I have been experimenting with parallel mains filters, using a box to plug separately into a spare mains plug (I'm running out, even though I went OTT when wiring to room up !). The filters in this case are just caps across the line in differential mode.
So I have built 2 very similar, one using more Panasonic X rated. My brother built a similar unit but in a different box and slightly different capacitor choice but again similar. All have the same 30uf and 12uf caps. the cascade down to 10uf, whilst not identical, the cascade adds up to 52-54uf and is just differential mode.
Do they work, yes. Are they transformational. definitely not, BUT they have qualities I didn't expect. Sonically the differences are there but small, musically they seem bigger. I keep engaged and it seems to continue to draw you in musically as opposed to somehow doing that less or the reverse without them. Here we go my brain again. How can that be a thing ?!
Okay why do I say that ? Because it's actully harder than usual to evaluate what they do and it IS in some respects subtle. So lots of A-B by myself and I am comfortable I can hear my version 1, vs my version 2 and none and both V1 and V2 together. So my brother was here at the weekend with his version, so now we have three boxes to listen and compare. All boxes have had over a month of burn in and this DID make a perceivable difference.
So on Saturday evening, 1/2 glass of wine in. We set them up plugged in behind the listing equipment and agree a blind test shoot out. Richard my brother will 'name' them A,B and C, then play A, then B then C. I then ask for any after that point. I cant see, but as its possible I get a feeling about the location of the switches and possibly guess which is which with some known or subliminal information, we agree he will move around turning on and off more than he needs to. All plus are within 18" of each other anyway and they are nearly directly behind the sofa. I also covered my ears as he made the changes to avoid distraction anyway.
I listen and request a number of changes, then conclude which I prefer and why. I also say I am 99% sure I can actually hear which is which. My reasons why were aligned with the my listening before. So getting this wrong now would be embarrassing as not only would I be wrong but I would have found differences that were clearly inconsistent. The differences I am hearing with these 'swaps' are way less than any power supply capacitor. Which is more than enough for me not to need to A-B IMO. Also I dont want to solder and resolver or build a mule every time I make a change.
I was nervous and to some extent surprised I was 100% accurate. I got the why's right and which was which, given how small the changes are between them it goes to show how good our hearing is. So how on earth would I measure this ? I have no doubt they would be indistinguishable the capacaitance is almost the same, the values are either the same or extremely close (I ran out of 10nf and used a 22nf in one version) I can hear differences between the same design with some of the caps being a different make. This is a parallel mains filter !!!! not even in line... or in a any of the 9 power amps we are listing to, the 4K player, the miniDSP, the preamp and processor.
This has reminded me to have confidence in your own judgement. How many either have very low resolution systems, so badly set up they aren't even close to hearing subtle benefits or are so convinced something wont make a difference ignore what they here ?
Do I think I have golden ears, NO ! Im nearer 60 than 50, I spent many hours in my youth listing to Thelonious Monk at 120db peaks through 105db/W horns. BUT I do take care to evaluate carefully and are very self critical, and I do go back however painful if I am not sure.
Could I walk in 1-2 hours later and tell you which one is plugged in, I seriously doubt it. But I have no doubt I'd get it right again with A,B,C blind test.
I await for the flack, the statistical probability, the fact that it's not double blind, my brother lied and so on....
Oh and I do really like Silmics, but none obviously used in parallel filters !
IWC Doppel: I think you have a point there about low resolution, bad set ups. Harder to hear change. But again some will never hear or dont want to hear smal changes in the system. I have send some interconnect cables with friends, silver in silk, pure gold in teflon at same time. No, sound the same to them. Nice test you and your brother did.
I’ve switched to using organic polymer or hybrid polymer caps any chance I’m able to. Still can’t find most of the bigger caps in polymer but the price really isn’t that much of a difference and totally worth the performance difference.
Mundorf, Kendeil, etc... on filtering are not cheap and far from what aerospace caps spec performances.
if i remember well they rate thier golden stuff at 3 to 5000h of those tiny reservoir, when industrial rates between 25000 to 40000h at the same temps.
and for the same cost if not cheaper !
into audio devices i personally had great result with, since i've yanked off all golden "audiophil" stuffs on my previous projects, and Music came back to what it meant to be!
if i remember well they rate thier golden stuff at 3 to 5000h of those tiny reservoir, when industrial rates between 25000 to 40000h at the same temps.
and for the same cost if not cheaper !
into audio devices i personally had great result with, since i've yanked off all golden "audiophil" stuffs on my previous projects, and Music came back to what it meant to be!
5000hrs at 105 celsius is a lot of decades at 25 celsius..Mundorf, Kendeil, etc... on filtering are not cheap and far from what aerospace caps spec performances.
if i remember well they rate thier golden stuff at 3 to 5000h of those tiny reservoir, when industrial rates between 25000 to 40000h at the same temps.
and for the same cost if not cheaper !
into audio devices i personally had great result with, since i've yanked off all golden "audiophil" stuffs on my previous projects, and Music came back to what it meant to be!
25000 hoursat 105 celsius will likely take you 9 lives at 25 celsius.
The shelf life is more important for audio equipment that you use from time to time.
Some may find this interesting, I tested some new capacitors on my ESR tester.
The ESR values may not be accurate, but it should at least give a kind of ESR hierarchy of 'new' capacitors, or some indication of it.
These are all 47uF, but various voltage ratings. ESR in Ohms. Remember the capacitors are unused.
Nichicon KA 50V = 1.07
Nichicon FG 63V = 0.45
Nichicon KZ 100V = 0.12
Panasonic FC 63V = 0.37
Elna Silmic II 63V = 0.17
Elna Cerafine 100V = 0.08
The ESR values may not be accurate, but it should at least give a kind of ESR hierarchy of 'new' capacitors, or some indication of it.
These are all 47uF, but various voltage ratings. ESR in Ohms. Remember the capacitors are unused.
Nichicon KA 50V = 1.07
Nichicon FG 63V = 0.45
Nichicon KZ 100V = 0.12
Panasonic FC 63V = 0.37
Elna Silmic II 63V = 0.17
Elna Cerafine 100V = 0.08
Class D power supplies are the only place I have found lower esr electrolytic caps to shine.
"Ultra" is pretty much meaningless - for any given capacitor the expected ESR changes with the actual value of the capacitance itself, the test frequency and the bias, if any. As @phase said, in audio the only place very low ESR is needed - required, actually - is in class D applications as well as, of course, in SMPSs. This is not to say that high ESR is necessarily OK in other applications, just that low ESR values are not required.
Hal
That. Besides that one better not uses them after various regulators and they don't perform better in various circuits just because they're lower in ESR. Also Pana FC may not be the lowest in ESR but they sound better than quite a few lower ESR caps (oh oh listening....). So the choice for lowest ESR is not necessarily a choice for best performance.
Indeed class D and SMPS are the ones really liking ultra low ESR caps (as the manufacturers call them).
Indeed class D and SMPS are the ones really liking ultra low ESR caps (as the manufacturers call them).
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