Folks:
One thing to consider: because of the extraordinary cost of the Sartori drivers, discounts off of a dealer's standard price may be both available and significant. I hosted an Elsinore group build in 2017-2018 which involved four pairs of speakers and our order with Madisound here in the US was over $3,400. Without much prompting, Madisound agreed to a 30% discount. Eight of the Sartori drivers are in the same ballpark and, if several builders were to work together, higher discounts might be available from Madisound (and other dealers, of course).
Given the foregoing, I hope that Sartori offers a healthy price break to a group of intrepid Elsinore Sartori builders. If not, you might want to consider pricing comparisons with dealers in your area.
Regards,
Scott
One thing to consider: because of the extraordinary cost of the Sartori drivers, discounts off of a dealer's standard price may be both available and significant. I hosted an Elsinore group build in 2017-2018 which involved four pairs of speakers and our order with Madisound here in the US was over $3,400. Without much prompting, Madisound agreed to a 30% discount. Eight of the Sartori drivers are in the same ballpark and, if several builders were to work together, higher discounts might be available from Madisound (and other dealers, of course).
Given the foregoing, I hope that Sartori offers a healthy price break to a group of intrepid Elsinore Sartori builders. If not, you might want to consider pricing comparisons with dealers in your area.
Regards,
Scott
- What is "standard peak-to-peak excursion" - maybe you men Xmax?
- Why does a "standard peak-to-peak excursion" *mean* higher sensitivity? Xmax is not tied to sensitivity in any way.
For a "pro", you express yourself like a beginner... vocabulary is "strange" and "facts" are wrong.
//
it does not work that way, Elsinore is 2.5way which means lower woofer is working together with overlapping upper woofer. with your intention it means it has to be 3way and will.be totally different
The inspiration for my question was SBA-761 which is a 2.5-way speaker using different drivers. So apparently it can be done.
Allen, since you already answered your own question, then why did you ask me? Huh? And on another forum at that. Sorry, that was bewildering.
It's Newton's 2nd Law. This has been known for about 350 years.
The fact that 'audiophiles' don't know this and think that making membranes in electrostatics 1/rd the thickness is better is neither here nor there. But he increased the sensitivity enough to be driven with smaller amplifiers.
They just happen to sounds fabulous, the simple fact I made was simple: He said that the treble of the Elsinores was up to the standard of the best electrostatics. Answer? Low distortion! If there was any 'linking' it was in your mind, not mine.
Finally, another myth is that large area electrostatics and ribbons, that they somehow move in unison across the area, this again is not quite correct. There seems to be something in nature that prevents this, John Atkinson of Stereophile has called this effect "shimmering" and it shows up as fine noise-like patterns in his measurements, but this is not to say that it causes audible distortions because it seems to have a benign influence. Maybe due to averaging? I don't know any more on the subject than it's an observation.
Similarly, with dynamic drivers with cones, the weight of the cone mainly affects bandwidth and efficiency. A heavier cone needs a large force factor (BL) to keep the sensitivity up, and Purifi does that with the medium-throw version.
The Purifi drivers do something very special to keep the bandwidth up, even with a heavy cone. They mass load the perimeter of the cone.
Can you see that funny-looking 'skirt' that goes around the behind of the perimeter of the cone?
This is devilishly clever and I think that I know why. Because the cone must flex above 1KHz to extend the response to circa 4-5KHz (it does) Newton's Law means that the heavier outside of the cone will become more stationary as frequencies above 1Khz increase. This shrinks the radiating area of the cone which means that there is less beaming and the off-axis response is maintained. You can see it:
This is remarkable! The on-axis response and the 15 degrees off-axis responses are almost the same. I have never seen this in any other drivers and who knows how many hundreds of drivers I have tested? Even the 30 degrees off-axis response is amazing, and is still rising. This rising does not bother me because it will allow a larger series inductor to be used (a good thing). So this looks very promising.
Allen, are you interested in doing a pair?
Last edited:
I was visiting SB (Danesian) and Ulrik Schmidt the designer and he told me that they were bringing in this tweeter and it does look interesting. But to be honest, Beryllium is not my cup of tea. They are more prone to fingers. The price is also near AUD $600 each.
I have invested a fortune on a tweeter that I know does an amazing job regardless of cost. You cannot compare the performance when it is fitted with the waveguide. It's massive.
PS: I agree about TW29BN-B-8 - I have used the baby version made of plastic and silk dome, and even that one is terrific. I would prefer using the silk version of TW29.
Last edited:
Hang in there till I hear from Purifi. It is will not be a group buy in the conventional sense. You will order from them directly as an eight set. The moment you mention eight, they will know what it is for. In videos I have seen, they are happy to deal with DIY and it seems to be their main market.
Regular large-scale manufacturers are unlikely to buy these, smaller specialists ones are. The fact is that the guys at Purifi are doing this because this is something of a 'love' project. They are connected with TI (texas Instruments, semiconductors), and with that kind of backing, Purifi has a massive backbone.
So I will keep you in the possible column.
Joe,
I sign up for eight Purifi drivers.
I want to build a third pair of Elsinore
Wow!
You are on the list. We shall see how we go.
I love what Troels has done. I have been wanting him to do it this way for a long time. To use single inductors. I am going to email him and congratulate him.
One of the things that Purifi drivers do is to suppress something called "impedance modulations."
I am glad that Purifi is calling it "impedance modulations" because I've gotten in trouble using that phrase, such as TNT dropped in and called be a 'beginner' because I didn't use the strict industry Xmax. First, I am no beginner, I have built speaker systems with my Dad even before I got to my teens, and I am Danish (big name in speakers) and I live in Sydney (where Thiele-Small developed their famous T-S Parameters just up the road from here), I have worked collaboratively with designers all over the world. I should not have to defend myself.
So everybody just smile. I am excited!
____________________________________________
Time frame? It looks like we have three serious guys down here in Australia, two in Sydney (incl. me) and Graham acg in Queensland.
In EU, we have Helmut and JaBar as certainties it seems.
That is a massive FOURTY drivers that Purifi has to build us.
If I can get one set of drivers before Xmas, that would be good. I will order the first eight immediately. Again, after arrangements are in place, you will each do your order to Purifi. I am sure they will be cooperative.
It then comes down to a local company as to when they can supply boxes (we need three pairs). How soon will that be with the summer holidays here? If I can work on the design in January, that would be good and you guys are set in February?
I will let you know how each and every step goes, first Purifi and then about getting the boxes I need to finalise the design.
Do I expect the crossover to be very different from EL-6, no I don't. The data that we have on the Purifi drivers are so extensive and from the details I have seen, the differences will be small, but highly necessary!
Whew! That was a lot of replies to get up to date.
Cheers, Joe
I of course I know that you are not a beginner - on the contrary you have a long time in the "business" - thats why it is so strange that you don't use the correct terms and state incorrect technical information.. why is this? Don't care - sloppiness - mystery creation - why? Because, as you state, you ar not a beginner and you obviously know the correct information... so why these "errors"?
//
//
I seem to recall asking you a question in The Lounge. You said it made you 'livid'..Joe Rasmussen said:
Edit: this looks like the one - The Black Hole......