How technically do you achieve "sound improvement" in a bitperfect chain? Please technically, specific changes done to daphile audio chain. How do you improve sound of the squeezeplay without any DSP (which I hope is the case in the daphile linux distribution)?
Last edited:
A bitperfect system
By trying and listening to other audioplayers for example. Who can possibly garantuee that a chain is bitperfect? And is it important? For me the sound is most important
By trying and listening to other audioplayers for example. Who can possibly garantuee that a chain is bitperfect? And is it important? For me the sound is most important
Indeed. The player pc has two jobs (in a bit-perfect setup); decode the audio file format(s) into PCM (or DSD as the case may be) and then dump that straight to the next downstream device. Bit-perfect is bit-perfect, regardless of what software is running on the player. This is why it is so puzzling to me that Daphile's sound changed somewhere through the upgrades to newer revisions (in my subjective opinion). The problem, for me, is that there is no way to verify whether Daphile is truly bit-perfect (as far as I know).
With MPD, it is very simple to define a hw sink in the config file and then use basic command-line tools to verify that MPD is in fact dumping the bit-perfect PCM stream directly to (in my case) the USB/SPDIF converter.
Subjectively, I think it sounds different than Daphile. Perhaps (probably) I am wrong, but I have no way to confirm it. At least with MPD, I know for a fact that it is bit-perfect. Perhaps knowing this makes it sound better to me. I'm OK with that.
Chain should be bit perfect. Otherwise you cannot use it with things like DTS or DoP encloded files. All my library of DSD music consists of DoP encoded Flag files. That allows me to play them at any place which is bit perfect and has DoP capable DAC (and all modern DSD DACs support DoP at least via USB input).
Last edited:
Exactly.
The easiest bit-perfection test is the classics - playing a DTS-encoded wav over SPDIF info a DTS-capable receiver.
Or the more complicated procedure - recording the output spdif stream, precise time-aligning with the original wav and subtracting. A bit-perfect chain (both playback and capture) will yield a zero wav (I have done that procedure many times when working on soundcard drivers).
As a bunch of people have pointed out, it is pretty trivial to prove a chain is (or isn't) bit perfect. But how do you know your subjective impression of the sound is consistent, and not affected by your mood, phase of the moon and amount of wine imbibed?
Bit perfect
I think that there must be one or more threads dedicated to the subject of subjectivity within the DIYAUDIO forums....just a hint.
...
I met someone who said he could not hear the difference between a standard electric wire for domestic use as LS-cable and good set of(but not so expensive) loudspeaker cables.
I did not even boughter to go into discussion with him....,or ask him to listen again, but than with his eyes closed...
Peter
I think that there must be one or more threads dedicated to the subject of subjectivity within the DIYAUDIO forums....just a hint.
...I met someone who said he could not hear the difference between a standard electric wire for domestic use as LS-cable and good set of(but not so expensive) loudspeaker cables.
I did not even boughter to go into discussion with him....,or ask him to listen again, but than with his eyes closed...
Peter
There is no way to "prove" you cannot hear something. You can always deliberately give incorrect answers while knowing the correct ones.
But you cannot fake correct answers without knowing them. That is why you can confirm you can hear the difference - by taking a blind test and giving correct answers statistically above guessing threshold.
The one who claims that he CAN hear a difference is the one to support his claim with a credible test result. Not the one claiming he cannot hear it - his results will never be credible for the faking possibility listed above.
I think that there must be one or more threads dedicated to the subject of subjectivity within the DIYAUDIO forums....just a hint.
Indeed. So why do you get testy as soon as somebody even asks what your listening methodology happened to be? It can't come as a surprise to you that experts consider some methodologies more valid than others?
Sorry, you're right! Wasn't very friendly of me. On second thought it is just a normal healthy question.
If have now tested Daphile for a couple of days a couple of hours, with and without my eyes closed and with other listeners too. We have done a lot of A/B comparison.
We came to the conclusion that Daphile is a big improvement compared to the same hardware withWindows 7 and JRiver. The differences were quite evident. It is almost the same as when listening to a just started tube amplifier and the same tube amplifier ON for a couple of ours. Audiofriends will know what I mean, by what I describe.
I don't have fancy test equipment, so I can't proove it. But I know what I heard.
Peter
You don't need any fancy equipment. Your ears are enough - but you just need to make sure you listen *only* with your ears.
I think that is the crux of the matter. You take it for granted that you know. Any engineer or scientist would ask "but how do I know I know?". That is a fundamental difference in how we view the world, and I don't think anything either of us writes will change that.
Hi Peter!
Look at what happened to me:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/274200-bug-head-emperor.html
Greets:
Tyimo
Unfortunately, here no one will believe you.
Look at what happened to me:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/274200-bug-head-emperor.html
Greets:
Tyimo
Unfortunately, here no one will believe you.
You say that as if it was a bad thing.
My old physics teacher (long ago) used to say "save the believing for the church."
This is so important than personnally I never test my tweaks without being drunk !
But for concistency of the results I always drink the same quantity ! One bottle of Pomerol !
Science
Funny you mention scientists and engineers. Both known for the fact they rather believe more in impossibilities than possibilities and opportunities as opposed to creative people. It's a known fact!
Peter
Funny you mention scientists and engineers. Both known for the fact they rather believe more in impossibilities than possibilities and opportunities as opposed to creative people. It's a known fact!
Peter
Indeed, consistency is the key. One bottle is definitely a convenient measure.
I wouldn't know, I am just an engineer with an interest in science. Somehow I am reminded of the good old Virginia Gildersleeve / Walter Kotschnig / Max Radin / Arthur Hays Sulzberger / Carl Sagan / Richard Feynman maxim "Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out". Another applicable one is Ronald Reagan's adaptation of an old Russian saying, "Trust, but verify".
While this might be an amusing conversation it is also wretchedly off topic.. Please stick to the subject! Some posts deleted.