There seems to exist a misinterpretation wrt to aural memory. Every part of the sensory system has a certain amount of memory associated with it, but varying in the capacity and time span for holding the "raw" sensory input.
The socalled auditory memory store a limited number of items for a couple of seconds (numbers vary from ~2s to ~15s) but of course there exists a long term memory for auditory input as well.
The transfer from short term to long term memory is related to categorical grouping of information and probably sensory input as well.
Afair the mechanism for long term storage of auditory input is still unclear, but additional information which can be stored in the categorical memory system can be related to the auditory information.
From a practical point of view - means normal listening just for entertainment - every perception/impression that will last only for a couple of seconds seems to be unimportant for normal life as you would not be able to remember the next time......
That position surely isn´t unreasonable provided that it is not stretched to post insults or is used to dismiss anything based on subjective listening and that there exists a basic set of requirements that once fulfilled will lead to acception of evidence.
"Known audible thresholds" are not hard barriers but instead the mean of an underlying distribution in the population.
Quite often the research was done on small sample sizes which usually prohibited the estimation/construction of a distribution, but the few real large scale research done indicate that the distribution is normal and will sometimes be right skewed as a physiological barrier exists.
So, if you really argue wrt the known thresholds, you have to assume that at least some humans will be able to do much better (and of course a lot of people will do much more worse too).
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Unless it is associated with a huge emotion ?
Our couple brain/ears seems pretty complicated. All the well known "audio illusions" show at evidence how we can be fooled (or helped) by our memory, culture, eyes etc...
One of the tricks used in mixing is to use the memory of the audience. It is very difficult to bring a very detailed bass in a landscape full of instruments. And, if you can achieve-it, it takes a lot of "room". If you can let the bass to play just alone (or just with the drums) with a sound full of harmonics, at the beginning of the tune, the audience will memorize its details. And even if you kill some of its medium or highs when the other instruments come into scene, in order to let more room to them, the audience will keep an unchanged feeling of the "great sound" of the bass all the way long.
Look, Toslink is the worst and cheapest option (or at least the original Toslink was). Just good for audio.
I know what I speak about, I have been designing systems for measuring wideband, DC - several MHz analog signals for the measurements in high power and high voltage laboratories, since 1980 till about 2005. So I do have some overview regarding optical components, fibres and their properties. Original audio toslink was limited about 3Mbit/s digital signal. Slow, with long rise and fall time.
Yes, it's called 'scooping'....ie eq a hole into the background sound sources in order to give foreground sound sources more acoustic space.
This helps in several ways....reduces required total system power, reduces masking allowing better focus of particular instruments/sources/vocals, reduces intermodulation in the reinforced/reproduced resultant.
Latino music sounds to me a cacophony with far too many sound sources, and the resultant becomes a blaring mess.
I worked a Santana show a few years back and it seemed that every muso was competing to be heard over the others, resulting in a wall of noise.
Dan.
There are many opinions that Toslink is not good.
I have found different optical links to sound different, so perhaps Toslink really is not really good enough.
No doubts/objections from me
.Yes, that's why I ask.
Do you have ideas/advice on how to economically retrofit better than Toslink optically isolated links to existing gear ?.
Dan.
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Oh, Max, they had put names on all our secret tricks ;-)
About this "wall of sound" problem (i agree with you) one of the production that killed-me were some of the "Earth wind and fire" albums. So many instruments, all perfectly audible with all their details. A miracle or what a work ! This said, thinking to this, we tend to listen to this kind of music more vertically than horizontally, switching from an instrument to an other endlessly.
Usually imho if a huge emotion is related to the auditory input then the listener will be able to remember.
Although there will be inevitably some exceptions, as humans are quite different, what i tried to say was related to the auditory memory and the case of rapid switching.
If something is only detectable if the tester is using rapid switching (and/or short snippets) then the practical relevance is questionable. If you can´t remember you´ll not miss something the next time.
If otoh it has practical relevance but remains undetected then you know that the test wasn´t sensitive enough.
If the data integrity is assured then Toslink is indeed good enough.
But according to the data sheets from Toshiba, the jitter spec is generous for the whole transmission chain and so it is a matter of the DAC´s clock recovery to avoid audible problems.
As Pavel mentions, it's the uncertainty caused by slow rise/fall time that is the problem.
The receiver clock recovery PLL needs low jitter input, just as in cable SPDIF.
Remember, the receive PLL is a low pass filter system with finite capture range....incoming signal jitter is not fully attenuated/eliminated.
Dan.
Richard, how did you connect the loudspeaker (load) ground wire, to the PCB connector or to the common star ground?
I don't expect higher distortion with the amp assembled in the proper case and with proper power and ground wiring.
BR Damir
Usually, it is a receiver diode that is slow. If a PIN diode and proper coupling is used, then it is fast. Transmitter diode is usually fast enough. Phototransitors are slowest, but give highest output.
TOSLINK
TOSLINK is, appropriately, bashed on many fronts, however ...
as a DIYer, I like the isolation and if you re-clock after ...
Isn't it reasonable ...
I can shelve my dad's cable Rx and CD, and have a Digifri
platform to work from
at my mom's, DVI output with ... OPT! Same with her Sony minisys.
Thanks,
Jeff
PS i see it all over the place from:
TVs to fones to mediaplayers to minisystems to car to comp to routers to nets to ...
TOSLINK is, appropriately, bashed on many fronts, however ...
as a DIYer, I like the isolation and if you re-clock after ...
Isn't it reasonable ...
I can shelve my dad's cable Rx and CD, and have a Digifri
platform to work fromat my mom's, DVI output with ... OPT! Same with her Sony minisys.
Thanks,
Jeff
PS i see it all over the place from:
TVs to fones to mediaplayers to minisystems to car to comp to routers to nets to ...
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IMHO..... the PA/dac and speaker would be in same enclosure... no speaker cables. Loudspeaker will be tuned via dsp for that combo. Certainly the dac will be included in PA as well as seperates. And, it appears that wireless from a source to speaker will continue to evolve. No interconnects. Mobility of source (music) will dominate.... via cloud, portables etc. It is looking very different than the world of yester-year.
Quit a few years back I was at a meeting in the San fransisco area where Microsoft was invited to meet and talk in a private home...... they said the future was wireless and mobile data. So, here we are well into it. More and more consolidation and integration for audio everywhere.
In this regard, the Hi-End is where Hi-Rez is at and HD downloads.
--------------------------------
...... ideal ground systems..... there is ground-ac power leakage to chassis and emi/rfi from smps, digital and video and RF to contend with. Somewhat less when systems become more integrated. All curable.. at various price points.
THx-RNMarsh
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