Your salad bowl MTM will have significant lobing and comb filtering as discussed in: technical papers like Biro Technology
MTM simulators like XDIR by Tolvan
Live music brings joy into our lives. It changes the chemistry of our mind and body.
You want to build home speakers that bring music magic to your family.
Consider a few sketches of larger speakers at the ends of your cabinet.
How many inches(cm) from the right cabinet edge to the right edge of the small wall bump-out? The right speaker will not go against the rear wall, but rather the back of the right speaker will go against the short wall bump-out. This will set the speaker width and depth. You will need to be able to toe-in the speakers, or at least toe-in the mid-tweet frequency unit(s). Design for 3-on-a-couch without comb issues.
MTM simulators like XDIR by Tolvan
Live music brings joy into our lives. It changes the chemistry of our mind and body.
You want to build home speakers that bring music magic to your family.
Consider a few sketches of larger speakers at the ends of your cabinet.
How many inches(cm) from the right cabinet edge to the right edge of the small wall bump-out? The right speaker will not go against the rear wall, but rather the back of the right speaker will go against the short wall bump-out. This will set the speaker width and depth. You will need to be able to toe-in the speakers, or at least toe-in the mid-tweet frequency unit(s). Design for 3-on-a-couch without comb issues.
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That they are cute or that I need another driver?
I've seen that solution, a lot cheaper than doing an array of tweeters as well, but you loose the advantages of line arrays for the HF area. Not a problem?
That sound very costly. I was hoping to keep it below 5000 SEK for drivers (2 subwoofers and 2 speakers/line-arrays), which translates to about 600 USD. The subwoofers seem to cost about 300 USD for two.
Looking at the software I only find a small difference between the lobing using an MTM or TM configuration. But that can be handled by making the speaker a 2.5-way, right? That should also remove the comb-filtering issue, right?
Sure, I'm doing sketches of larger speakers as well. It's kinda hard to make them seem slim/unobtrusive, when I want the volume
/Anton
low budget for this much
could turn into a quality problem
subs tend to be relatively expencive with amps etc.
but it might be possible to drive two subs with just one amp
The amps have a separate budget, 600 USD is only for drivers. I plan on making my own amplifiers from kits. I've solder two 41Hz amps, which has been a lot of fun and very rewardinglow budget for this much
could turn into a quality problem
subs tend to be relatively expencive with amps etc.
but it might be possible to drive two subs with just one amp
/Anton
I decided to make a few rendering of alterations of this design:
I like it, but think it would look better in oak in our living room. Maybe combined with black or high gloss white.
The elements used are SB15NRXC30-8, SB29RDC-C000-4 and RSS210.
First I did a smaller (2-way) version to place up on the console (containing subwoofers).
Looks a little small.
And a 10 cm higher high gloss white version:
I like this better, both color and height.
A floor stander:
With double 8" woofers (front and back).
In room:
Ok, but it need some kind of detail on the middle of the baffle. The original had the baffle divided into panels which looked better.
How about with a black textile grill:
Makes it look very tall.
What if I split the grill into two pieces:
Now it looks wider instead...
That's better, the shapes still need some work though.
/Anton
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I like it, but think it would look better in oak in our living room. Maybe combined with black or high gloss white.
The elements used are SB15NRXC30-8, SB29RDC-C000-4 and RSS210.
First I did a smaller (2-way) version to place up on the console (containing subwoofers).
Looks a little small.
And a 10 cm higher high gloss white version:
I like this better, both color and height.
A floor stander:
With double 8" woofers (front and back).
In room:
Ok, but it need some kind of detail on the middle of the baffle. The original had the baffle divided into panels which looked better.
How about with a black textile grill:
Makes it look very tall.
What if I split the grill into two pieces:
Now it looks wider instead...
That's better, the shapes still need some work though.
/Anton
That will result in a problem where to place the mid-woofer. The tweeter can be small, but the mid-woofer needs to be at least a 4" and placed close to the tweeter, that needs to be placed close to the top.
Of course the woofer is active. In all the designs I post I plan on using active cross-over and separate amplifiers for each driver.
/Anton
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not if you make the bottom wider
there have been a few designs like that in the past
I believe one was made by Electrocompaniet
anyway
big distance between woofer and mid might demand a bigger midwoofer instead of a small mid
xo point may need to be lowered like if being a 2way with sub
or else place woofer higher
imo ... I would probably prefer straight up sides, no angles
but I'm old and boring
what do I know about youth
Very attractive 3-way pyramid cone speaker sketch! Side cabinet placement allows speakers large enough to make music magic. SBAcoustics drivers would be a great price/performance choice, with several diy Xovers on the web to study.
Speaker toe-in for proper soundstage development.
The normal recommendation for proper soundstage development is to toe-in cone+dome speakers until their center lines cross just in front of the listening position. An equalateral triangle (L-R-listener) is often recommended as a blank sheet room goal. You could add toe-in on your sketch to get the full interior desigh effect. A two piece, W + MT design would allow toe-in of just the MT top if the W Xover is ~100Hz.
High frequency horns with 90x40 or 60x40 polar response will remove significant room reflections when compared to the 180x180 polar response of MT cone+dome. Take a look at the 60x40 horn coverage picture for your room dimensions.
Speaker toe-in for proper soundstage development.
The normal recommendation for proper soundstage development is to toe-in cone+dome speakers until their center lines cross just in front of the listening position. An equalateral triangle (L-R-listener) is often recommended as a blank sheet room goal. You could add toe-in on your sketch to get the full interior desigh effect. A two piece, W + MT design would allow toe-in of just the MT top if the W Xover is ~100Hz.
High frequency horns with 90x40 or 60x40 polar response will remove significant room reflections when compared to the 180x180 polar response of MT cone+dome. Take a look at the 60x40 horn coverage picture for your room dimensions.
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I like your new designs, suggest the V at the bottom of baffle is a bit too steep, drawing too much attention. It should only be noticed after the eye has taken in the whole. Sort of like a nice finishing touch and not a main element. Just my thoughts.I decided to make a few rendering of alterations of this design:
/Anton
This will have problems with combing though, maybe can be solved by using a single tweeter?
Maybe an array of B&G neo 3 (they are not very expensive) flanked by 13-16cm woofers from SB Acoustics?
When I was considering my new speakers the first thing that came to mind was a Trio from Hawthorne Audio. So I was reading up on it and my wife take one look at the size (besides they would need at least a meter behind them for breathing room) and freaked. I shelved that idea because the idea of sleeping on the couch did not appeal to me.
1. You can use ribbons in you want to do a line source. I believe Founteks should fit the budget.
2. If your speakers go low enough (say 60Hz) you might be able to 'make do' with a single active subwoofer. Again here I would look at TC Sounds. I find them very good VFM.
Yeah, that would probably look a little calmer and more balanced.
B&G neo3 is 85$ at PE, how is that "not very expensive" when talking about an line arrayMaybe an array of B&G neo 3 (they are not very expensive) flanked by 13-16cm woofers from SB Acoustics?
When I was considering my new speakers the first thing that came to mind was a Trio from Hawthorne Audio. So I was reading up on it and my wife take one look at the size (besides they would need at least a meter behind them for breathing room) and freaked. I shelved that idea because the idea of sleeping on the couch did not appeal to me.
1. You can use ribbons in you want to do a line source. I believe Founteks should fit the budget.
2. If your speakers go low enough (say 60Hz) you might be able to 'make do' with a single active subwoofer. Again here I would look at TC Sounds. I find them very good VFM.
Fountek NeoCD3.5H is interesting, but I can't afford line-arrays of them (73$ each).
TC sounds drivers are on the list.
I did a few renderings today as well:
Subwoofer as usually in the console right below the speaker.
Cute idea, but I'm not sure about the acoustics.
/Anton
Anton, methinks you're trying too hard. I still think for WAF, the Cornu works best. Especially if you cover the driver with a silkscreen on it's own frame to hide the driver. Make it about 1/2 to 2/3 coverage of the box.
Here is a shot of the edge so you can see they look fine from that perspective as well. The 'scratch' on the trim is actually a string of hot glue. On the right of the first pic you can see how I added the moulding so it looks like it's own frame and filter cloth to hide the horn mouths so it tends to meet many of the WAF requirements. One either side of the TV on the wall, and the woofer wherever there's room.
In the second pic they are just there to listen to. Not only can you see the camera flash but you can see the reflection of the jellyfish lamp above the right speaker.
On top of that, they took only 20 hours as you see them so if they don't work out you can decide on something else. Besides, with the foam core, they are the funnest build I can remember.
Here is a shot of the edge so you can see they look fine from that perspective as well. The 'scratch' on the trim is actually a string of hot glue. On the right of the first pic you can see how I added the moulding so it looks like it's own frame and filter cloth to hide the horn mouths so it tends to meet many of the WAF requirements. One either side of the TV on the wall, and the woofer wherever there's room.
In the second pic they are just there to listen to. Not only can you see the camera flash but you can see the reflection of the jellyfish lamp above the right speaker.
On top of that, they took only 20 hours as you see them so if they don't work out you can decide on something else. Besides, with the foam core, they are the funnest build I can remember.
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onni,
Have you considered the Metronome design? Something like a tower, I know, but the tapered profile lends them a degree of elegance. My wife doesn't find mine offensive. They have generally been built with various full-rangers, but it would also be possible to adapt a 2-way design to the Metronome shape. Add a powered sub for the bottom end and a fairly small Met would do for the rest. The master thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/85410-metronome.html
Bill
Have you considered the Metronome design? Something like a tower, I know, but the tapered profile lends them a degree of elegance. My wife doesn't find mine offensive. They have generally been built with various full-rangers, but it would also be possible to adapt a 2-way design to the Metronome shape. Add a powered sub for the bottom end and a fairly small Met would do for the rest. The master thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/85410-metronome.html
Bill
Monitor W15NeoSEAS W15CY001 +
SEAS CURV
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
http://www.epos-acoustics.com/products/archive/els3/
any of these would need a sub
SEAS CURV
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
http://www.epos-acoustics.com/products/archive/els3/
any of these would need a sub
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