Our flight to Orly was 3 hours late, we missed our connector to Marseilles, no flights, trains, or cars available, due to the holiday. Sister drove up last night and today we drive down. Seven hours, should be fun. As a student of history, and as an American (where architecture seems to have died), I would like to see Notre Dame back to what was. The ugliest I have seen would have to be Brutalist, how that style ever appealed to anyone I don't understand. I was wondering if Russia may be another source of big oaks? I have never seen the Louvre, but modern architecture has never appealed to me, maybe I will feel differently when I see it.
I was there in January.
And Swarovski, and a whole lot of curio shops etc etc.
The MacDonalds is HUGE
So you speak about The Carre du Louvre between the pyramid and the Carroussel whic center area is under the road.... not right under the big pyrammid. Btw did you go to the pretti bar at the first floor of the Richilieu side ?
That is an interesting though Pano...the only thing i loved from this temple of modern art was indeed collections but mainly the strong color of tubes which contrasr with grey roofs of the classic buildings around or their stone construction. Made me think of Delaunays' paintings...
@Bonsai , it could be a language thing , I understood these MacD and Starbucks were right downstair the big pyramid in the entrance visitor hall. I remember of the souvenir shops of the near Carre du Louvre you can walk from the visitors main entrance hall or from the outside at the surface near the Carroussel. There were not these two restauration shops when i was there. OMG, too bad those junk food symbol enterred to this place, i m sad about it....
I could not find the firemen yet, I must explore more ...
" Gigarama.ru is a Russian site specialized in gigapixel photos and published an aerial shot of Notre Dame Cathedral, where you can see in detail the damage caused by the fire last Monday. Gigapixel photos are compositions made from a large number of high resolution frames, which are combined using a program that pastes one billion pixels. This way you get a panoramic photo on which you can zoom in and see the scene with amazing details.
In the case of the photograph of Notre Dame Cathedral, it was captured after firefighters managed to extinguish the flames that consumed the needle and the wooden framework of the roof for six hours. In the 360-degree photograph you can see the surroundings of the cathedral, as well as the damages. By zooming in, you get to see firefighters working inside the building.
To access the full picture you have to enter gigarama.ru. There it is possible to pan with the mouse and zoom around the cathedral to take a stroll through the Light City.
The fire started in what is known as "the forest of Notre Dame", one of the treasures of the cathedral, a marvel of Gothic architecture (second half of the Middle Ages) that was not usually part of the sites visited by the almost 12 million tourists who received per year.
The forest was an immense structure located on the roof of the cathedral, 100 meters long by 13 meters wide in the nave and 10 meters high, built with oak. This framework was made up of about 1,300 beams, each of which came from a different tree, so it is estimated that for its construction it was necessary to cut at least 21 hectares of forest. That's where his name came from. It is estimated that some of the trees from which they came could be between 300 and 400 years old, which means that they dated between the 8th and 9th centuries.
This wooden structure supported a roof built with some 1325 lead sheets 5 mm thick, weighing 210 tons.
According to the official page of the cathedral, in the year 1196, Bishop Maurice de Sully bequeathed in his testament 5000 pounds for the purchase of lead for the roof of the temple. One of the advantages of this lead layer is that it perfectly seals the surface of the structure, according to the National Library of France. According to the arcipestre of the cathedral, Patrick Chauvet, there are fire inspectors who routinely supervise the building, including the wooden roof, whose status they check three times a day.
Frédéric Létoffé, director of a French group specializing in the restoration of old buildings and monuments, explained that the cathedral has smoke detectors but that there are no automatic sprinklers in the forest area, as they never wanted to install any electrical system because of the risk of a short circuit.
According to Vincent Dunn, a consultant on fire safety issues interviewed by The New York Times, religious sites represent a challenge for firefighters. "These cathedrals and cult centers are built to burn. If they were not religious places, they would be closed, "he said. "
Una superfoto de un superestrago | La catedral de N... | Pagina12
Perhaps. About a decade ago I rebuilt an old building here, circa 1840 - 1850 or so, and I needed about sixty or so replacement beams, IIRC, about 32 feet long, 26 inches vertical, and 3 inches width ( more or less - dimensioning was all over the place on the original surviving beams ).
A sawmill on the west coast supplied them, with the same slow speed, rough cut, saw marks as the old stuff, but the old stuff was mostly knot free from primordial forest and practically petrified, the new stuff was not ( no pun intended ).
They can get replacement lumber, but, cosmetically, it probably won't be quite right. It will not be inexpensive.
Around here, you substantially rebuild something, no matter how old, you have to meet new code. That meant sprinklers.
Win W5JAG
Ah, the unforgettable Pompidou Center.
.
.
.
.
.
Oops, sorry, that's an image of restoration scaffolding on a hotel a few blocks away from Pompidou Center. It's easy to mix them up.
It's mostly steel these days. You can still do wood but it's not cost effective anymore for long span.
Sprinklers are avoided in such historical buildings with dry wood floors and roof support structure to avoid shorts as they do at Westimter and certainly elsewhere.
But maybe it could be just fine with steal support structure ?
They had smoke detectors, but with low tension & low curent.
As Airbus are partially made in France, maybe they could think about carbon fiber for the spire support structure only: light, ideal for wind, modern print, less dangerous in case of fal ?
A laser light spire could be cool and less ugly than a modern exterior, but involve electricity...
Btw, odd a lightening never touched this roof ? If so, where is the lightening rod ? One was certainly added but where ? The two belfries (no pune intented) ?
But maybe it could be just fine with steal support structure ?
They had smoke detectors, but with low tension & low curent.
As Airbus are partially made in France, maybe they could think about carbon fiber for the spire support structure only: light, ideal for wind, modern print, less dangerous in case of fal ?
A laser light spire could be cool and less ugly than a modern exterior, but involve electricity...
Btw, odd a lightening never touched this roof ? If so, where is the lightening rod ? One was certainly added but where ? The two belfries (no pune intented) ?
In refineries and chemical plants there are areas where there are hazards for explosions. In those locations there are requirements for electical work to either contain explosions in heavy casings, intrinsically safe wiring, or inert gas purging.
To avoid the possibility of igniting dry wood due to electrical faults perhaps electrical work could be installed which conforms to standards for hazardous locations.
And for people who fear water damage due to water from sprinklers, there is going to be MUCH more water applied by firefighters than what would be delivered by sprinklers when the fire is much smaller.
To avoid the possibility of igniting dry wood due to electrical faults perhaps electrical work could be installed which conforms to standards for hazardous locations.
And for people who fear water damage due to water from sprinklers, there is going to be MUCH more water applied by firefighters than what would be delivered by sprinklers when the fire is much smaller.
How freeze is managed on winter in such cold old monuments ?
Is it possible to put large diameter tubes running from the river to such roofs?
Not made for aesthical reasons or because the cost or efficienty because the heigth?
Certainly easier when building from scratch but they surely think about it for the two towers as the bells are supported by wood which is near from a rose window.
Is it possible to put large diameter tubes running from the river to such roofs?
Not made for aesthical reasons or because the cost or efficienty because the heigth?
Certainly easier when building from scratch but they surely think about it for the two towers as the bells are supported by wood which is near from a rose window.
I tend to think the opposite. While the buttressing is employed to counteract the outward force on the wall from such a heavy roof, one could interpret the required anchoring and deflection distribution to be such that it would have a similar, albeit lesser effect on the inward movement of the wall as well. IOW: I am guessing it would have some pull along with all that push.
Last edited:
There are some photos floating around Facebook of the beams and woodwork (charpente) under the roof. In other words, what burned. It looks more 19th century than 12th to me, but I don't know much.
BTW, years back I visited a forest in France that had been a royal reserve for shipbuilding trees. Once ships began to be made of steel, the trees were left. They ought to be big enough for Notre Dame. Wish I could remember the name of the forest.
BTW, years back I visited a forest in France that had been a royal reserve for shipbuilding trees. Once ships began to be made of steel, the trees were left. They ought to be big enough for Notre Dame. Wish I could remember the name of the forest.
Carbon fiber is more like tinder than glass fiber composite.
It uses carbon fibers and not glass.
It looks like there was a lightning rod and thanks to those Russians with there drone camera it can still be seen.
Attachments
Last edited:
I could not find the firemen yet, I must explore more ...
I found them !
I was looking in the wrecked part, and they are between the two main towers ....
Most familiar one is the Forêt de Troncais (Auvergne)
Secretary (of state) of the navy Colbert decreed that new planted trees could not be touched for 200 years.