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15" folded horn idea
15" folded horn idea
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Old 11th July 2018, 09:52 PM   #1
Vintage Audio Projec is offline Vintage Audio Projec
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Default 15" folded horn idea

Hi you all,

This will be my first post around here but I have been reading quite some threads.

I was thinking for a folded horn design that needs to cover the bass and upper bass (from around 50-60 to 200-250Hz)
Some sort of kickbin. My experience so far with that frequency range is that a 15" drivers sounds very good.

Ofcourse it depends alot of the driver and design but in general I like the sound that a good 15" driver can produce.
If they are horn loaded I like it even more the headroom and the transients....
(I have build 16 punisher horns in the past and powered with 1kw/ punisher it's insane.... You need a lot of BR boxes and power to do the same,)
So I was thinking that getting to around 50-60Hz with a folded 15" horn doesn't has to be that extremely large

So i was searching and came across a design from the old fane speaker book
Fane 1x15 Folded Horn | Ubertino Landi di Chiavenna | Flickr or you can find the book here http://www.ozvalveamps.org/cabinets/...ages-26-33.pdf and there the last 2 pages.

Searching further I also came across this horn from cowan called the Horn sub JR
Horn Subwoofer

They are not that different from each other

So I ran some hornresp simulations on the cowan design.

It will not be corner loaded so the last section was removed from the simulation.

The driver I would want to use is the Beyma 15P80ND.

QTS is only 0.178 and the EBP is 181.

BL is 24.3 so I think it would be a great horn driver
Xmax is 7.5mm.

Xlim is 26mm.

So My first simulation gave this
Click the image to open in full size.

I think it's actually quite good. The enclosure is only 60cm x 60cm x 70cm
It does 101db at 50Hz. After that it goes down relatively fast.

The driver is rated for 800w aes and 1600w peak.
So when used for continues operating (800w) i get the next simulation.
Click the image to open in full size.

So that gives 135db of output. Falling to 130db around 50Hz.
It still does 125db at 40Hz ....so a little bit Eq is possible.
Simulating the 15P80ND in a BR enclosure only gets me to 122db at 40Hz....

Looking at the excursion it goes a little over Xmax around 80Hz but it's only 0.5mm so not a big problem.
Even without a Highpass filter the woofer is well within the Xdamage Limit altough I would not do that.


Now if I would use 4 of those boxes stacked together at full power then the simulation changes to this

Click the image to open in full size.
That is over 140db...
It goes a bit lower also (around 45Hz)
Xmax is also reduced a little bit

You can even push further and use 1600w peak for each driver resulting in 145db... but xmax goes up. Still below Xdamag but a little bit over Xmax so distortion will rise a little bit.

So what do you guys think of this horn design? altough a little bit "outdated". Using a modern speaker I think it could work and still be transportable.
There will be some compression loss at high power but I think it will go very loud. And most of the alround music at small parties will not lose that much extention.

And what abou tthe upper extention? I would like to cross at around 200-250Hz
Looking at the graphs I think it would be possible
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:36 AM   #2
Vintage Audio Projec is offline Vintage Audio Projec
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Hi

So a little update on this.
I made the cab a little bit bigger (70*70*74)to fit under my tractrix 5mr450 horn.
I made 1 testcab.
It goes up to 300Hz without big problems.
The low goes to around 45Hz and EQ to 40Hz is possible.
It is quite sensitive also.
First test was with an 18sound 15w1200 I had around. 15p80 should arrive this week
I will update this and give some Photo's etc when I can....
Also, I still have to measure the response outdoor when the weather s ok.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 09:11 PM   #3
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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can you post a pick.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:30 PM   #4
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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15" folded horn idea
- sure would like to see a dimensioned drawing of your horn - how different in sims would it be from that particular Fane folded horn?
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:33 PM   #5
Vintage Audio Projec is offline Vintage Audio Projec
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I will see if I can make a good drawing this weekend and take some pictures.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:35 PM   #6
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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15" folded horn idea
sounds fantastic
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Old 3rd October 2018, 10:48 PM   #7
nigelwright7557 is offline nigelwright7557  United Kingdom
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I did a w bin with a Fane 15-300TC and I like the sound of it.
Its output is beyond bass as well though.
fane_diagram | Folded horn Fane cabinet | harrabylad | Flickr
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Old 5th October 2018, 07:51 AM   #8
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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15" folded horn idea
- got a question - how should the Fane 1-15 horn path and throat area be described for hornresp for the most accurate sim? (The internal width is 25" and assume the driver cutout diameter ~13.3" - once simed - it would be nice to see how it scales)

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 5th October 2018, 08:01 AM   #9
jtgofish is offline jtgofish
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The Visaton MB115-B kit also looks good and is affordable.
What I like is it can be used to around 500hz which would be perfect for integrating with a midrange horn like the original Edgar Tractrix midrange

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...517EUH0LbUS94k
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Old 5th October 2018, 09:30 AM   #10
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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15" folded horn idea
(I have Bruce's 250Hz tractrix from the late 1980's) - is "this" the correct plan for that Visaton horn ?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f45/11/05/75/44/turbo_10.jpg
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