I went to a handful of raves in the 90s. In Australia.
Back then, raves seemed to use roughly the same PA gear as you'd use for a rock band or normal club night - probably because it was the same gear.
Acoustics varied massively based on the location (e.g. some indoor venues were awkwardly shaped, or the walls buzzed).
Experiences in Europe / England (where there was more money in the rave and summer festival scene) were probably very different, with dedicated sound systems being the norm. "When Jamaicans emigrated to the United Kingdom, the sound system culture followed and became firmly rooted there in the 1970s."
Sound system (DJ - Wikipedia)
Since then, sound systems have come a long way.
1) cheap measuring gear and free software
2) cheap DSP with PC interface (didn't exist last century)
3) good cheap amps
4) I've seen a decent number of 'rave' style sound systems which have a lot of overlap with DIY / audiophile home systems.
They sound good.
The pictures attached are a bit dodgy, but they show one system (Rubix Warehouse) that is vaguely like Avantgarde or similar horns, and two other systems (at 24 Moons and Horse Bazaar) that use synergy-style horns. All these venues are in Melbourne, Australia.
The first two are nice - loud and "clean".
The Horse Bazaar system I can't evaluate in the same way; I haven't been to that sort of event there, and I doubt they are able to play as loud for legal reasons (nearby apartments).
I've also seen Synergy clones used outdoors.
I've tried making my own Synergy clones. It is pretty easy with DSP + copying (approximately) other designs.
...so my recommendation is to to do this.
a) Clone a good DIY horn system (synergy-style or whatever) that uses well regarded pro components (for midbass and above)
b) use the biggest / best system you can for LF. Pick up vintage gear and tweak it (e.g. add DSP), or build it from scratch, doesn't matter.
Or simply buy a professional equivalent:
Danley Sound Labs, Inc. | Premium Loudspeakers
My own take on a 'rave' system is an outdoor mono horn stack. Currently using:
12" Faital woofer (60Hz horn)
Community M200 (mid horn)
Dayton Audio DT250P-8 1" (tweeter horn)
Again, I got it right first time because I was using DSP and copying (approximately) other designs.
If you built a pair, and had a quad of woofers driving the midbass horns, something like this would probably be fine for raves / gigs.
Back then, raves seemed to use roughly the same PA gear as you'd use for a rock band or normal club night - probably because it was the same gear.
Acoustics varied massively based on the location (e.g. some indoor venues were awkwardly shaped, or the walls buzzed).
Experiences in Europe / England (where there was more money in the rave and summer festival scene) were probably very different, with dedicated sound systems being the norm. "When Jamaicans emigrated to the United Kingdom, the sound system culture followed and became firmly rooted there in the 1970s."
Sound system (DJ - Wikipedia)
Since then, sound systems have come a long way.
1) cheap measuring gear and free software
2) cheap DSP with PC interface (didn't exist last century)
3) good cheap amps
4) I've seen a decent number of 'rave' style sound systems which have a lot of overlap with DIY / audiophile home systems.
They sound good.
The pictures attached are a bit dodgy, but they show one system (Rubix Warehouse) that is vaguely like Avantgarde or similar horns, and two other systems (at 24 Moons and Horse Bazaar) that use synergy-style horns. All these venues are in Melbourne, Australia.
The first two are nice - loud and "clean".
The Horse Bazaar system I can't evaluate in the same way; I haven't been to that sort of event there, and I doubt they are able to play as loud for legal reasons (nearby apartments).
I've also seen Synergy clones used outdoors.
I've tried making my own Synergy clones. It is pretty easy with DSP + copying (approximately) other designs.
...so my recommendation is to to do this.
a) Clone a good DIY horn system (synergy-style or whatever) that uses well regarded pro components (for midbass and above)
b) use the biggest / best system you can for LF. Pick up vintage gear and tweak it (e.g. add DSP), or build it from scratch, doesn't matter.
Or simply buy a professional equivalent:
Danley Sound Labs, Inc. | Premium Loudspeakers
My own take on a 'rave' system is an outdoor mono horn stack. Currently using:
12" Faital woofer (60Hz horn)
Community M200 (mid horn)
Dayton Audio DT250P-8 1" (tweeter horn)
Again, I got it right first time because I was using DSP and copying (approximately) other designs.
If you built a pair, and had a quad of woofers driving the midbass horns, something like this would probably be fine for raves / gigs.
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Hi,
Hollowboy answer is quite nice and informed!
From someone which was part of the 'scene' until 2005 ( me! As a dj and part of some soundsystems) In the other half of the planet ( continental Europe) here is was i've seen at that time:
For free parties ( outside) situation was more or less the same than the one described by Hollowboy: mostly second hand 'typical' pa system brands of 80's and 90's ( Turbosound, Das, Rcf, ...) but oversized for lowend.
In the best case some 'recents' systems ( 2000's). The best i've played on was a DB technic sound system. Can't remember the ref of it but it was huge and very very clean ( good setup of sound system and something like 20kw of amp power).
The desk i played on was a Freevox* dj7 with 'disco sound' used at half it's range ( it give a boost at 60hz but it's not a simple bell eq, there is a kind of compression to it... and it is part of 'the sound'- if system can accept it!). Cart was ortofon dj's ( yes we used analog and... it IS mostly part of the sound), decks SL1200mk2.
Sometimes i've encounter some 'dedicated' sound systems like the one used by Dillinja and the 'Valve' crew: mostly horn loaded with scoop bassbins 'developed' especially for the style. Heard it outside and it was ok for me. Inside i was much less impressed...
I've heard custom one that was better to my liking but usually they weren't as potent that the big commercial names.
For clubs ( don't forget it is first a style played in clubs rather than in Rave), i've heard Turbosound and D&B technic at 'The Rex' in Paris circa 90's/00's, can't remember what was used in 'the End' in London but it was very nice to me when i visited it. Martin audio had good systems too ( iirc this was what used in Ministry of Sound).
Overall the club system wasn't really different than the one used for techno/house except they were allowed to dig a little deeper in low end mostly by eq ( 25/30hz rather than 40hz).
One thing: even at this past times the 'better' system were actively processed: dsp and multiamp. It was one of the reason the systems sounded 'clean' ( the other one being headroom so high wattage power amp and lots of boxes).
In recent years Dsl ( Danley) and Meyer seems to be the weapon of choice outside but i can't tell about it because...i 've lost interest in what the style is atm ( much less artistic creativity than 20y ago to me) and don't have time for parties anymore! ( and i didn't follow the trends to dubstep/bassmusic which seems to have eclipsed Drum and Bass).
For clubs it seems Funktion One have overflooded the market in EU ( thanks to big electro festival and hype toward dj's). Never been convinced by the one i've heard which i find 'hard'/'harsh' sounding in hi mid. Good for house/ electro, not so good when there is voices used in tracks to me).
Hope that help ( from an historic side at least).
But i'm sure there is some really interesting things to ear atm.
*: this french brand was highly regarded for electronic music at that time: d&b, techno and house dj's used them a lot. Most dj's of 'french touch' imposed this desk for Ibiza clubs at the time. There was a reason to it! I've heard that the 'disco sound' was even used in mastering stage for 'french touch' 's international hits.
Hollowboy answer is quite nice and informed!
From someone which was part of the 'scene' until 2005 ( me! As a dj and part of some soundsystems) In the other half of the planet ( continental Europe) here is was i've seen at that time:
For free parties ( outside) situation was more or less the same than the one described by Hollowboy: mostly second hand 'typical' pa system brands of 80's and 90's ( Turbosound, Das, Rcf, ...) but oversized for lowend.
In the best case some 'recents' systems ( 2000's). The best i've played on was a DB technic sound system. Can't remember the ref of it but it was huge and very very clean ( good setup of sound system and something like 20kw of amp power).
The desk i played on was a Freevox* dj7 with 'disco sound' used at half it's range ( it give a boost at 60hz but it's not a simple bell eq, there is a kind of compression to it... and it is part of 'the sound'- if system can accept it!). Cart was ortofon dj's ( yes we used analog and... it IS mostly part of the sound), decks SL1200mk2.
Sometimes i've encounter some 'dedicated' sound systems like the one used by Dillinja and the 'Valve' crew: mostly horn loaded with scoop bassbins 'developed' especially for the style. Heard it outside and it was ok for me. Inside i was much less impressed...
I've heard custom one that was better to my liking but usually they weren't as potent that the big commercial names.
For clubs ( don't forget it is first a style played in clubs rather than in Rave), i've heard Turbosound and D&B technic at 'The Rex' in Paris circa 90's/00's, can't remember what was used in 'the End' in London but it was very nice to me when i visited it. Martin audio had good systems too ( iirc this was what used in Ministry of Sound).
Overall the club system wasn't really different than the one used for techno/house except they were allowed to dig a little deeper in low end mostly by eq ( 25/30hz rather than 40hz).
One thing: even at this past times the 'better' system were actively processed: dsp and multiamp. It was one of the reason the systems sounded 'clean' ( the other one being headroom so high wattage power amp and lots of boxes).
In recent years Dsl ( Danley) and Meyer seems to be the weapon of choice outside but i can't tell about it because...i 've lost interest in what the style is atm ( much less artistic creativity than 20y ago to me) and don't have time for parties anymore! ( and i didn't follow the trends to dubstep/bassmusic which seems to have eclipsed Drum and Bass).
For clubs it seems Funktion One have overflooded the market in EU ( thanks to big electro festival and hype toward dj's). Never been convinced by the one i've heard which i find 'hard'/'harsh' sounding in hi mid. Good for house/ electro, not so good when there is voices used in tracks to me).
Hope that help ( from an historic side at least).
But i'm sure there is some really interesting things to ear atm.
*: this french brand was highly regarded for electronic music at that time: d&b, techno and house dj's used them a lot. Most dj's of 'french touch' imposed this desk for Ibiza clubs at the time. There was a reason to it! I've heard that the 'disco sound' was even used in mastering stage for 'french touch' 's international hits.
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Good replys. In terms of history you have Manhattan loft parties turning into disco clubs:
Acoustilog Inc.: Disco Acoustics: The Paradise Garage
which lead to house which was then a big worldwide influence with lots of similar systems appearing globally. You also have Techno starting in Detroit, Berlin and UK but I am less sure of the chronology there. Basics are massive low end capability and aggressive low end EQ boost. All but the finest venues have little/no acoustic treatment.
Acoustilog Inc.: Disco Acoustics: The Paradise Garage
which lead to house which was then a big worldwide influence with lots of similar systems appearing globally. You also have Techno starting in Detroit, Berlin and UK but I am less sure of the chronology there. Basics are massive low end capability and aggressive low end EQ boost. All but the finest venues have little/no acoustic treatment.
"Where did the techno/house started?"
Dub (and Jamaican sound systems) seems to be the Ur-Example for popular electronic dance music.
Dub music - Wikipedia
Ur-Example - TV Tropes
Dub (and Jamaican sound systems) seems to be the Ur-Example for popular electronic dance music.
Dub music - Wikipedia
Ur-Example - TV Tropes
Its more than a detail, if you don't isolate the decks in a loud club acoustic feedback makes playback impossible. Especially with decks not as good as the Tecnics 1210 MK2 (which has AFIK the best isolation from external vibration). I much prefer digital playback as its not subject to issues like this, every time I have had to deal with vinyl playback its involved a lot of fiddling.
^ the irony in the ' ' surounding details didn't make it trough my writing.
Like i said i played ( and still do from time to time) TT so i know this isn't a detail at all.
I once was in a situation when we had feedback ( no rumble, a good old feedback at 1khz or thereabout) from monitoring through the cartdrige... we had something like 3kw with horn loaded loudspeakers at 3m away located behind the main ... i was scared about spl at mixing booth, but as we booted on FOH for low and subs, i hadn't even thoughts about give the mainwall an ear upclose.
I don't know if the 1200mk2 are the best regarding isolation but they were greatly enhanced with the use of some kind of inflating orange bag put under them ( around 2000 it was ,can't remember of the product's name).
The most impressive isolation system i've seen and heard was from radio station: an oil bath proofed stand/furniture. I intentionaly crashed into it while playing a disc and... nothing on reproduced track. Very impressive but bulky and weighted a ton!
It's fun to see you younger fighting with things which was our day to day issues back then. As a technician i understand your point however.
As a dj (and as audience) i don't like to see digital gear as it is 90% of time synonimous of poor creativity and sound. Break build up through effects each tracks ( or couple of), big cuts on poor loopeds parts of a track and hands in the air... For the sound quality, well vinyl does have drawbacks that is sure but digital in it's lack of technical limitation regarding stereo bass, high output level and no needs of a qualified technician to validate the work brings bad bad things to me.
Or maybe i'm to old!
Like i said i played ( and still do from time to time) TT so i know this isn't a detail at all.
I once was in a situation when we had feedback ( no rumble, a good old feedback at 1khz or thereabout) from monitoring through the cartdrige... we had something like 3kw with horn loaded loudspeakers at 3m away located behind the main ... i was scared about spl at mixing booth, but as we booted on FOH for low and subs, i hadn't even thoughts about give the mainwall an ear upclose.
I don't know if the 1200mk2 are the best regarding isolation but they were greatly enhanced with the use of some kind of inflating orange bag put under them ( around 2000 it was ,can't remember of the product's name).
The most impressive isolation system i've seen and heard was from radio station: an oil bath proofed stand/furniture. I intentionaly crashed into it while playing a disc and... nothing on reproduced track. Very impressive but bulky and weighted a ton!
It's fun to see you younger fighting with things which was our day to day issues back then. As a technician i understand your point however.
As a dj (and as audience) i don't like to see digital gear as it is 90% of time synonimous of poor creativity and sound. Break build up through effects each tracks ( or couple of), big cuts on poor loopeds parts of a track and hands in the air... For the sound quality, well vinyl does have drawbacks that is sure but digital in it's lack of technical limitation regarding stereo bass, high output level and no needs of a qualified technician to validate the work brings bad bad things to me.
Or maybe i'm to old!
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I remember those inflatable bags
Towards the end of the whole crossover time.
Where you had a combination of guys using CD decks and turntables.
So me as a producer was incredible happy to finally be able to burn a CD
and hear my song being played that night.
When before if you had a track you really really loved
You either payed a good 500 to 800 dollars to get records pressed.
Or maybe around 180 dollars to have a plate cut.
To even dream about getting your track played at a event.
You either had Vinyl , Vinyl or Vinyl if a DJ was gonna touch your track.
Anyways, point was those inflatable bags under the turntable solved so many problems so quickly
when before. You had to come up with some elaborate solutions.
The perfect solution shows up, finally
when many were switching over to CD
I wouldnt say to old. Because I was there in the beginnings in the 90's too.
But Ironically 20 years later, fell back into the Scene around 2010.
The production quality of the newer Bass House and Electro House tracks
were mind blowing. When DnB was speeding up from 165 to 180 Bpm back in the 90's
I wanted to produce breakbeat that was slower and hold up in the Clubs.
Was getting to fast, lost its grove
The concept was in my head but I couldnt find the sounds or glue it together.
Knowing it would steal the slow deep bass gangster/hiphop styles of drums
But have more soul and grove.
By 2013 when Trap hit. My god these kids figured it out.
Being in a underground event when that Bass hit and the vibes were flying.
It was like getting your mind blown when Acid House just completely blew your mind
in the 90's thinking nobody could capture such a overnight revolution again.
Not that your too old, its just a formal introduction to new music
in the same underground and happy environment when Acid House
or Drum and Bass first hit your ears.
The production quality and sounds you get now with synths, creates bass and rips
and soundscapes. We could only dream of , even when we had the hottest synths and
samplers making DnB
Towards the end of the whole crossover time.
Where you had a combination of guys using CD decks and turntables.
So me as a producer was incredible happy to finally be able to burn a CD
and hear my song being played that night.
When before if you had a track you really really loved
You either payed a good 500 to 800 dollars to get records pressed.
Or maybe around 180 dollars to have a plate cut.
To even dream about getting your track played at a event.
You either had Vinyl , Vinyl or Vinyl if a DJ was gonna touch your track.
Anyways, point was those inflatable bags under the turntable solved so many problems so quickly
when before. You had to come up with some elaborate solutions.
The perfect solution shows up, finally
when many were switching over to CD
I wouldnt say to old. Because I was there in the beginnings in the 90's too.
But Ironically 20 years later, fell back into the Scene around 2010.
The production quality of the newer Bass House and Electro House tracks
were mind blowing. When DnB was speeding up from 165 to 180 Bpm back in the 90's
I wanted to produce breakbeat that was slower and hold up in the Clubs.
Was getting to fast, lost its grove
The concept was in my head but I couldnt find the sounds or glue it together.
Knowing it would steal the slow deep bass gangster/hiphop styles of drums
But have more soul and grove.
By 2013 when Trap hit. My god these kids figured it out.
Being in a underground event when that Bass hit and the vibes were flying.
It was like getting your mind blown when Acid House just completely blew your mind
in the 90's thinking nobody could capture such a overnight revolution again.
Not that your too old, its just a formal introduction to new music
in the same underground and happy environment when Acid House
or Drum and Bass first hit your ears.
The production quality and sounds you get now with synths, creates bass and rips
and soundscapes. We could only dream of , even when we had the hottest synths and
samplers making DnB