I've just picked up two pairs of 12pw and one pair of 7ps, in appalling open baffle "cabinets". (I've done better with a pair of "betseys" on boards). Having dismantled and removed the drivers in eager anticipation of getting to work building a proper enclosure to help them sing, I have a couple of questions which I cannot see addressed here yet.
Firstly given an XO around or above 800 hz., is there any disadvantage In using the 7p in an open baffle rather than an enclosure?
Secondly on reviewing the data sheet for the 7p I note it can be used with or without the second magnet contained in the rear cover. What effect does adding or removing this second magnet have on the charicteristics of the driver? Nobody seems to refer to even trying them with and without.
The 12pw is a fantastic driver imo. At the moment I listen to 11ms in FHXL cabinets, very good but miss the incredibly articulate bass that their predecessors, 12pws in an imperfect but not bad vented box gave. Looking to regain that, with more depth and weight from two a side in proper sized cabinets, plus relatively seamless integration to the treble.
Firstly given an XO around or above 800 hz., is there any disadvantage In using the 7p in an open baffle rather than an enclosure?
Secondly on reviewing the data sheet for the 7p I note it can be used with or without the second magnet contained in the rear cover. What effect does adding or removing this second magnet have on the charicteristics of the driver? Nobody seems to refer to even trying them with and without.
The 12pw is a fantastic driver imo. At the moment I listen to 11ms in FHXL cabinets, very good but miss the incredibly articulate bass that their predecessors, 12pws in an imperfect but not bad vented box gave. Looking to regain that, with more depth and weight from two a side in proper sized cabinets, plus relatively seamless integration to the treble.
500 to 800Hz should not be a stretch for the wide ranger. No problem there.
About OB, they do need to breathe, so a minimum distance of 1.5m from any wall is really preferable. Not every room can accommodate that.
And OB is a different beast. Some love it, some don't. That's ok.
Personally, I love it. I love the openness of the sound. I find regular boxes to be "beamy". Each has their set of compromises, it's up to you to figure out what works best for you.
Good luck!
About OB, they do need to breathe, so a minimum distance of 1.5m from any wall is really preferable. Not every room can accommodate that.
And OB is a different beast. Some love it, some don't. That's ok.
Personally, I love it. I love the openness of the sound. I find regular boxes to be "beamy". Each has their set of compromises, it's up to you to figure out what works best for you.
Good luck!
Thanks for your replies.
Any views/experience on the A7's second magnet? I've never come across this option on a speaker driver before. Thought the drivers were broken when the backs came off, until I reread the spec sheet!
l tried OB with the Betseys and liked it, all save the not plentiful bass. Also found them very very particular about room placement. Will be trying a rebuild there too when have more time. I was thinking that by putting the 7s as OB above 600Hz and keeping the 12pws in cabinets that might give the best of both worlds, airy and open mid, tight and real bass, I can give them a metre or so space in the room around them and hope for a little less fussyness about their exact position. Hope springs eternal. Would moving the XO point higher be better?
All matters for experiment I know, but I'd appreciate hearing people's views before blundering into the unknown (for me).
Any views/experience on the A7's second magnet? I've never come across this option on a speaker driver before. Thought the drivers were broken when the backs came off, until I reread the spec sheet!
l tried OB with the Betseys and liked it, all save the not plentiful bass. Also found them very very particular about room placement. Will be trying a rebuild there too when have more time. I was thinking that by putting the 7s as OB above 600Hz and keeping the 12pws in cabinets that might give the best of both worlds, airy and open mid, tight and real bass, I can give them a metre or so space in the room around them and hope for a little less fussyness about their exact position. Hope springs eternal. Would moving the XO point higher be better?
All matters for experiment I know, but I'd appreciate hearing people's views before blundering into the unknown (for me).
Hi there, and sorry to jump on the thread. Just hoping someone might be able to advise if this is a daft idea or worth pursuing. For projects I've meant to do but never found the time I have a pair of Alpair 12PWs and a pair of SB Acoustics Satori tweeters sitting around. Now I have a bit more time on my hands I'd like to do something with them and I'm wondering if they might play nicely together in something. In my head a Super Pensil cabinet kit from KJF (albeit with an extra hole routed out for the tweeters) with a low-order crossover at a fairly high point (7000hz?) would get the most out of the Alpairs and let the Satoris take over nice and smoothly at the top end.
However, I'm far from an expert here and from reading a lot of threads on the subject I suspect I might be walking into a world of trouble with phase issues, interference etc. and I may just be trying to reinvent the wheel, rather than doing the obvious thing of just sticking a decent full range driver in a well designed cabinet. Regardless, I would welcome any thoughts before I go too far down the rabbit hole...
However, I'm far from an expert here and from reading a lot of threads on the subject I suspect I might be walking into a world of trouble with phase issues, interference etc. and I may just be trying to reinvent the wheel, rather than doing the obvious thing of just sticking a decent full range driver in a well designed cabinet. Regardless, I would welcome any thoughts before I go too far down the rabbit hole...
I can get Scott to jump in, he does tweeters.
It is an idea, adding a tweeter to A12pw, that i have rarely seen. But the recent build of Empress of India did just this. Th efellow ended up with this fter trying a forward firing horn tweeter.
I don’t think Scott has done a Pensil for A12pw.
dave
It is an idea, adding a tweeter to A12pw, that i have rarely seen. But the recent build of Empress of India did just this. Th efellow ended up with this fter trying a forward firing horn tweeter.
I don’t think Scott has done a Pensil for A12pw.
dave
Cheers Dave, really appreciate the response. Aye, it's not something I've seen many people doing on any of the various forums, which should probably tell me something. I've read on here, quite possibly from yourself, that the 12PW makes an excellent FR in its own right, just perhaps lacking a bit of sparkle at the higher end. Unfortunately I suspect it isn't going to be as simple as sticking an extra hole in a cabinet kit alongside a simple x-over and making something spectacular but, tbh, as a novice DIY'er having worked my way through turntable, phono, pre and (shortly) power amp I'm just itching to get into another project!
Why not build a Nanotyrannus and just stick a tweeter in it?
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-markaudio-drivers.324962/page-98
jeff
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/new-markaudio-drivers.324962/page-98
jeff
Cheers Jeff, that looks exactly what I'm after! Although begs the question of whether I'm trying to fit a square peg into a round hole because of the tweeters I have on hand and would be better off just getting another pair of Markaudio drivers to match the 12PWs.
Pat
Seems like trying both is the only way to find out…$64 dollar question.
jeff
The A12pw has been under-appreciated. They are only starting to get some builds behind them.
It does. Particularily if you have limited HF hearing. What is does right below 10K puts it ahead of the A12p which goes all the way up.
Some playing will likely be needed, we will find out more as we see mre take this approach.
The A12pw reaches to about 10k, but as the frequencies do up the relative centre-to-centre becomes significant and one gets a different amount of reinforcement or cancellation causing significant pertebations in the response thru the XO region just by moving your head. The castle arrangement show avoids that by purposely pushing the distance to a point where it fills in the topend sheen without the FR pertebations.
A lower XO point would allow more convential use. If one takes 2 ocatves doen from 10k, a 2.5k XO gives overlap on the A12pw. Usually measn faster than 1st order XO.
dave
The 12PW is a lovely unit, not dissimilar in response & reach to the old WE / Altec 755. No, I'm not saying it sounds exactly like it, just noting it has a similar broad response trend.
Be that as it may, I wouldn't personally cross the Satori tweeter (which I know well & have used in commercial products) at 7KHz: to me this is not using either driver to their best advantage. I'll have a look and see what I can suggest as I do have measured data for both drivers available.
Be that as it may, I wouldn't personally cross the Satori tweeter (which I know well & have used in commercial products) at 7KHz: to me this is not using either driver to their best advantage. I'll have a look and see what I can suggest as I do have measured data for both drivers available.
Cheers Scott, really appreciate that! I'm definitely keen not to force the two drivers together just for the sake of it - I can't see much point in losing the qualities that make either driver really nice - but interested to see if something good could be made of them. If that is doable and within the scope of one of you guys' paid plansets then that's a route I'd be really happy to go down.
That said, on the back of Dave's input I spent yesterday wedging the 12PWs into some old Castle Pembroke cabinets I had in the shed. Obviously absolutely miles away from ideal, but as an experiment will hopefully give me a feel for how they might go as FRs in their own right...