I haven't been in here for quite a while. It's good to see a little banter without hostile replies- I asked a simple question about a crossover in another forum and got trashed.
Anyway, a few pages back, I saw something about cone materials- before I gave up experimenting, I was looking at aluminum shim stock available from McMaster Carr. Used 5 minute epoxy to adhere the seam. Used Pellon to dampen the inside of the line with some silicone grease to get it to stick to the aluminum.
Didn't sound bad at all. You can get Pellon at fabric stores- it's used to stiffen collars and cuffs.
Anyway, a few pages back, I saw something about cone materials- before I gave up experimenting, I was looking at aluminum shim stock available from McMaster Carr. Used 5 minute epoxy to adhere the seam. Used Pellon to dampen the inside of the line with some silicone grease to get it to stick to the aluminum.
Didn't sound bad at all. You can get Pellon at fabric stores- it's used to stiffen collars and cuffs.
Hi, Glo *S*. Yeah, I haven't seen your handle in awhile...you're always welcome here. I only get hostile when faced with boundless stupidity that seems to indicate a rock upside the head. I don't think you'll ever approach that IMHO. That, and there's a lot of 'trolls' out there. It's a shame they seem to be infiltrating these venues....
Shim stock? Mmmm...I'll wander over to McMC and stare at that. I've gotten a suggestion and some samples from Cocleus of some full hardness aluminum from Grainger. I wonder if it's the same stuff, +/-. There's some many alloys of aluminum, I've been musing over the thought that alloy selection could play into cone characteristics. Makes me want to chat up a metallurgist (sp?) or the like to see if there's an alloy that would be superior for the application....
Silicone grease? I'm only familiar with the caulks or the spray 'slick stuff'. Does it harden, or stay 'gooky'? (Now there's a technical term for ya *L*)
...and Pellon...*L* Now that blows my little brain (what's left of it). One, I'm always blown away by what us DIYers' dredge up to 'tweak' our stuff with. It reminds me of the old 'run what ya brung' to car and bike 'shoot offs'. Second, it brings to mind the 'gook' that was and is in the old Ohm Fs'. I've read so many descriptions of that stuff I've wondered if anyone bothered to scrape some off and take it in for analysis. Everything short of tasting it....*L* But I'll check it out. Can't hurt (much), might be the golden fleece...thanks.
Anyhow...thanks for dropping in. Makes' me feel good about 'what I'm about', and that I'm not posting into the void. I've actually started showing up in Googles' Images in an obscure way (my avatar and another project that has Nothing to do with 'DIY Walsh Speakers'....go figure out how their search parameters dredge That up *L*).
Shim stock? Mmmm...I'll wander over to McMC and stare at that. I've gotten a suggestion and some samples from Cocleus of some full hardness aluminum from Grainger. I wonder if it's the same stuff, +/-. There's some many alloys of aluminum, I've been musing over the thought that alloy selection could play into cone characteristics. Makes me want to chat up a metallurgist (sp?) or the like to see if there's an alloy that would be superior for the application....
Silicone grease? I'm only familiar with the caulks or the spray 'slick stuff'. Does it harden, or stay 'gooky'? (Now there's a technical term for ya *L*)
...and Pellon...*L* Now that blows my little brain (what's left of it). One, I'm always blown away by what us DIYers' dredge up to 'tweak' our stuff with. It reminds me of the old 'run what ya brung' to car and bike 'shoot offs'. Second, it brings to mind the 'gook' that was and is in the old Ohm Fs'. I've read so many descriptions of that stuff I've wondered if anyone bothered to scrape some off and take it in for analysis. Everything short of tasting it....*L* But I'll check it out. Can't hurt (much), might be the golden fleece...thanks.
Anyhow...thanks for dropping in. Makes' me feel good about 'what I'm about', and that I'm not posting into the void. I've actually started showing up in Googles' Images in an obscure way (my avatar and another project that has Nothing to do with 'DIY Walsh Speakers'....go figure out how their search parameters dredge That up *L*).
J-
I haven't a clue as to that Ohm used as a goo. In very early experiments back in the '70's, we tried that white silicone heatsink grease- I think Infinity played with it as well, but after some time it hardened to a chalky consistency. It's also a bitch to clean up- nothing seems to work as a suitable solvent.
The silicone grease we settled on is the stuff they use to lubricate PVC valves-it doesn't harden (at least not yet). We got it at pool supply houses, but now you can probably get it at Home Despot.
Last time I went looking for pellon, they had "improved" it by putting a hot glue on it so you could iron it on the fabric. I'm not so sure this is what you want, so try to find the non-adhesive variety. The silicone grease sticks it to the foil nicely and allows the foil to vibrate freely.
When you're looking for alloy for cone materials, try to find the velocity of sound propagation rating. Sometimes you can actually find that value.
Walsh's patent had some math that showed the relationship between this and the velocity of sound in air which determined the actual angle of the cone. Remember the two angles in the "A"?
By the way, I found titanium foil on-line at a backpacker's supply- they sell it as a lightweight campfire heat reflector. Go Figure.
Should note that in the "F" and later iterations, this relationship appears to have been ignored, although some would say the damping materials they used altered the propagation velocity. Maybe, but I think the striations in the metal and the silicone RTV filled slits in the paper part of the cone had more to do with this.
If you want to play with carbon fiber, they sell it as a thin laminate for dressing up your dashboard (also on-line). A bit pricey, but interesting. The even more expensive German Physik driver uses this stuff. (I noticed that the cone angle of these drivers is the same for both aluminum and carbon fiber, by the way)
A couple of added thoughts- Dale Harder sells a Walsh mid tweeter- there are no striations in the aluminum cones, so something is going on inside. He's the guy who repairs and restores old Ohm's, and he won't say much about his damping methods.
Also, Bud Purvine has some definite ideas about damping- He's in this forum somewhere, so find his posts and see what he has to say.
Enjoy
I haven't a clue as to that Ohm used as a goo. In very early experiments back in the '70's, we tried that white silicone heatsink grease- I think Infinity played with it as well, but after some time it hardened to a chalky consistency. It's also a bitch to clean up- nothing seems to work as a suitable solvent.
The silicone grease we settled on is the stuff they use to lubricate PVC valves-it doesn't harden (at least not yet). We got it at pool supply houses, but now you can probably get it at Home Despot.
Last time I went looking for pellon, they had "improved" it by putting a hot glue on it so you could iron it on the fabric. I'm not so sure this is what you want, so try to find the non-adhesive variety. The silicone grease sticks it to the foil nicely and allows the foil to vibrate freely.
When you're looking for alloy for cone materials, try to find the velocity of sound propagation rating. Sometimes you can actually find that value.
Walsh's patent had some math that showed the relationship between this and the velocity of sound in air which determined the actual angle of the cone. Remember the two angles in the "A"?
By the way, I found titanium foil on-line at a backpacker's supply- they sell it as a lightweight campfire heat reflector. Go Figure.
Should note that in the "F" and later iterations, this relationship appears to have been ignored, although some would say the damping materials they used altered the propagation velocity. Maybe, but I think the striations in the metal and the silicone RTV filled slits in the paper part of the cone had more to do with this.
If you want to play with carbon fiber, they sell it as a thin laminate for dressing up your dashboard (also on-line). A bit pricey, but interesting. The even more expensive German Physik driver uses this stuff. (I noticed that the cone angle of these drivers is the same for both aluminum and carbon fiber, by the way)
A couple of added thoughts- Dale Harder sells a Walsh mid tweeter- there are no striations in the aluminum cones, so something is going on inside. He's the guy who repairs and restores old Ohm's, and he won't say much about his damping methods.
Also, Bud Purvine has some definite ideas about damping- He's in this forum somewhere, so find his posts and see what he has to say.
Enjoy
I dont think there is anything special about what is happening inside of the cone. Nothing more than silicone. I am not aware of carbon like you describe these are mostly aesthetic decals nothing more. There are however carbon sheets that are sold be made and can be bent and glued. although carbon fiber really is cheap enough I dont see why people always seem to think its very pricey. 100 dollars will allow you to play with carbon fiber for a while. The primary thing is speed of sound the material and the angle/geometry are just ways to modify this number. Here is a load of information I have on walsh speakers.
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...back 'n black 'n blue...
(Still in recovery from the 8 wk. Raleigh stint...playgrunt installs are Not for sissies...*L* Although, on the 'up' side, the local Breaking News, Sports, Weather & More | The News & Observer & NewsObserver.com News & Observer paper is supposed to be running an interview they did with us on the site. And on their website is a video the cameraman shot of us. Then you'll know more about us 'n me than you'd probably care to know. *L* Another 1/4 hr. of fame...)
Hi guys, and Happy Mem. Wknd. Wish we didn't have reason to remember the sacrifice of our peers and those who've preceded them...and the fact the numbers still grow. I was lucky enough to be 4F, but still would prefer they'd all be in Nepal vs. the Middle East. *sigh*
Anyway...
G, Nobody seems to know what the 'gook' was. Why someone hasn't subjected it to analysis by now is beyond me, but... Thanks for the additional info on Your cone treatments. I stopped by a fabric store this am and checked out Pellons' goods; I'll put it on the list as a 'try'.
Yeah, cleaning up silicone in any variety is a mess. I used to have to try to clean up the caulk variety a lot. Probably the only thing that would work is some ghastly molecular acid alien blood...kiss your fingers Goodbye before use...
I've noticed the angle change on the A cones, wondering if that seam + angle shift causes some subtle effect(s) on propagation...kind of a physical xover? All we need is a time machine to score a new pair to verify that...*L*
Re the angle on the GP drivers, that's roughly the angle I've opted to mess with. Staying with a single material for the cones, score some better vc/magnet assemblies that might less prone to 'cook', and see about interior treatments that can be swapped out without trashing the cone and having to rebuild entirely. Creative sloth, if you will...
Yeah, I've got that backpacking supplier bookmarked. When finances allow, and the spouse is not paying attention...*L* ("You bought What?!)
She thinks I'm vaguely insane. Sometimes, she's right. But she's a plantaholic and a fishtank type. We all have our urges....*G*
Hey, Mags/D, yeah, I know that 'pseudo-cf' stuff. It looks like the real thing, but typically printed self-adhesive vinyl. They can print that stuff to look like anything these days, high resolutions, takes a razor blade after application to tell. Hell, there's even a 'dip' process, you can fake it on Anything you can immerse. That's how they're doing gun stocks and other stuff lately.... I agree, I'll opt for the real deal...
I'm waiting for them to come out with printed or dipped human skin. You read it here first. At that point, I want off this planet. *L* (see below)
I'm hip to Harder/HHR...and I wouldn't talk much about 'it' either. He's spent an enormous amount of time perfecting his wares, and I'd be reluctant too.
Got a query on my AK forum (yeah, I'm Everywhere these days....no escape *L*) from a guy in EU about rebuilding a pair of Fs'. I gave him my best 'IMHO' thoughts about it, and wished him luck. Hope he's up to the task, as it's not something that I'd want on my 'to do' list....
Re 'see below', from above:
When in Raleigh, weekend break. Went to breakfast downtown, ran into a street fest. Group had set up a large 4 faced chalkboard, with many "What I'd like to do before I die is" followed by a blank for your plea....
*L* I wished I had the time to observe reaction to:
"What I'd like to do before I die is return to my own galaxy...PLEASE"
Have a great weekend...consume mass quantities. *G*
(Still in recovery from the 8 wk. Raleigh stint...playgrunt installs are Not for sissies...*L* Although, on the 'up' side, the local Breaking News, Sports, Weather & More | The News & Observer & NewsObserver.com News & Observer paper is supposed to be running an interview they did with us on the site. And on their website is a video the cameraman shot of us. Then you'll know more about us 'n me than you'd probably care to know. *L* Another 1/4 hr. of fame...)
Hi guys, and Happy Mem. Wknd. Wish we didn't have reason to remember the sacrifice of our peers and those who've preceded them...and the fact the numbers still grow. I was lucky enough to be 4F, but still would prefer they'd all be in Nepal vs. the Middle East. *sigh*
Anyway...
G, Nobody seems to know what the 'gook' was. Why someone hasn't subjected it to analysis by now is beyond me, but... Thanks for the additional info on Your cone treatments. I stopped by a fabric store this am and checked out Pellons' goods; I'll put it on the list as a 'try'.
Yeah, cleaning up silicone in any variety is a mess. I used to have to try to clean up the caulk variety a lot. Probably the only thing that would work is some ghastly molecular acid alien blood...kiss your fingers Goodbye before use...
I've noticed the angle change on the A cones, wondering if that seam + angle shift causes some subtle effect(s) on propagation...kind of a physical xover? All we need is a time machine to score a new pair to verify that...*L*
Re the angle on the GP drivers, that's roughly the angle I've opted to mess with. Staying with a single material for the cones, score some better vc/magnet assemblies that might less prone to 'cook', and see about interior treatments that can be swapped out without trashing the cone and having to rebuild entirely. Creative sloth, if you will...
Yeah, I've got that backpacking supplier bookmarked. When finances allow, and the spouse is not paying attention...*L* ("You bought What?!)
She thinks I'm vaguely insane. Sometimes, she's right. But she's a plantaholic and a fishtank type. We all have our urges....*G*
Hey, Mags/D, yeah, I know that 'pseudo-cf' stuff. It looks like the real thing, but typically printed self-adhesive vinyl. They can print that stuff to look like anything these days, high resolutions, takes a razor blade after application to tell. Hell, there's even a 'dip' process, you can fake it on Anything you can immerse. That's how they're doing gun stocks and other stuff lately.... I agree, I'll opt for the real deal...
I'm waiting for them to come out with printed or dipped human skin. You read it here first. At that point, I want off this planet. *L* (see below)
I'm hip to Harder/HHR...and I wouldn't talk much about 'it' either. He's spent an enormous amount of time perfecting his wares, and I'd be reluctant too.
Got a query on my AK forum (yeah, I'm Everywhere these days....no escape *L*) from a guy in EU about rebuilding a pair of Fs'. I gave him my best 'IMHO' thoughts about it, and wished him luck. Hope he's up to the task, as it's not something that I'd want on my 'to do' list....
Re 'see below', from above:
When in Raleigh, weekend break. Went to breakfast downtown, ran into a street fest. Group had set up a large 4 faced chalkboard, with many "What I'd like to do before I die is" followed by a blank for your plea....
*L* I wished I had the time to observe reaction to:
"What I'd like to do before I die is return to my own galaxy...PLEASE"
Have a great weekend...consume mass quantities. *G*
Sadly, I know a guy who has a pair of both A's and F's in his garage. He prefers B&W these days. If he's still alive, I'll see if he want's to part with them.
Looking at the "A", that angle change represents the difference in the velocity in aluminum and titanium, and yes, it probably was/is a mechanical crossover. The big problem was it took 200 watts to play them and 201 watts to blow them. Back then, the only thing that rivaled the bass on an Ohm A was the subwoofer that came with the Infinity servo statics.
Unfortunately, the techs that built the Ohm's back in the day have retired or passed on. That's why Ohm won't try to fix them- they lost their technology. They're also understandably more interested in selling their new stuff.
Like I mentioned, Dale Harder does it, but he ain't cheap and he isn't willing to share any information. I've spoken with him several times on the phone.
The carbon fiber laminate I mentioned is indeed carbon fiber, not printed plastic. I can't remember who is making it, but I found it on-line. They sent me a small sample, which I tossed a couple of years ago.
Since retirement, I've had to give the living room back to my wife, so no more mad scientist creations- has to be furniture. I had a hell of a time selling her on the Martin-Logans I now have.
Looking at the "A", that angle change represents the difference in the velocity in aluminum and titanium, and yes, it probably was/is a mechanical crossover. The big problem was it took 200 watts to play them and 201 watts to blow them. Back then, the only thing that rivaled the bass on an Ohm A was the subwoofer that came with the Infinity servo statics.
Unfortunately, the techs that built the Ohm's back in the day have retired or passed on. That's why Ohm won't try to fix them- they lost their technology. They're also understandably more interested in selling their new stuff.
Like I mentioned, Dale Harder does it, but he ain't cheap and he isn't willing to share any information. I've spoken with him several times on the phone.
The carbon fiber laminate I mentioned is indeed carbon fiber, not printed plastic. I can't remember who is making it, but I found it on-line. They sent me a small sample, which I tossed a couple of years ago.
Since retirement, I've had to give the living room back to my wife, so no more mad scientist creations- has to be furniture. I had a hell of a time selling her on the Martin-Logans I now have.
OMG!
In a garage?! Sacrilege! *L* Don't let get out....I can see the Faithful gathering with pitchforks and torches....and if he's passed, they'll dig him up and do...I don't want to go there....*shudder*
I know...overreaction, but wow. I hope it's a nice garage, at least. Covered up with a least a sheet. I can understand the B&Ws', but... I guess it's like discovering a Bugatti in a barn, a Ferrari in a chicken coop. These things do occur...
I remember the Servo Statics. Awesome in those days. Now we can create enough bass to nearly drive nails into sheetrock...
Yeah, Ohm lost their religion. I saw a pic online of what's in the mystery cylinder beneath the fabric grilles and was really disappointed. A pity.
Well, Harder charges what he thinks is appropo for a difficult activity, and I can respect that. My little clones are tricky to assemble; I'm pleased that they sound as good as they do within their limitations and their faults. I've been listening to them more than my regular oddball collection of drivers, even though they'll blow them away in some respects, certainly in sheer spl. But that's why I'd like to improve on them. Not that I expect to surpass GP or HHR, but Perhaps, when I retire from my 'real job' I could Perhaps offer to people at a lower price point a decent Walsh array that wouldn't require 201 but would sound good enough to be competitive and offer the audio experience that we find so compelling....
Call it a goal. I've been toying with the idea. I don't play golf, after all. *L*
I'd rather listen to music like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSRHpA2giUk
...on something I've made, and be able to share that with someone.
(Turn the MLs' loose on the above...the 'Ridge' vid is 'a trip', as we used to say... Crank it @ 4:00...It'll knock the dust off the screens...I like ELs' too...)
I'll go looking for that laminate...
...and SAF is Important. And hopefully, she likes them if only because they make you happy. If she likes them for what they do for music, Big Win. *S*
They put up with us. We put up with them. It's all in the balance of our days...
Oh yeah, while I'm posting links...here's the news article about us I mentioned, so you don't have to go hunting about...
Asheville couple design playgrounds with fun, safety in mind | News & Observer News & Observer
Yep, that's my current holographic appearance, subject to change without notice. But the idiosyncrasies remain, much to spouses' chagrin and delight. A mixed and mix bag and baggage. *L* Now you know what to throw the rocks at.
In a garage?! Sacrilege! *L* Don't let get out....I can see the Faithful gathering with pitchforks and torches....and if he's passed, they'll dig him up and do...I don't want to go there....*shudder*
I know...overreaction, but wow. I hope it's a nice garage, at least. Covered up with a least a sheet. I can understand the B&Ws', but... I guess it's like discovering a Bugatti in a barn, a Ferrari in a chicken coop. These things do occur...
I remember the Servo Statics. Awesome in those days. Now we can create enough bass to nearly drive nails into sheetrock...
Yeah, Ohm lost their religion. I saw a pic online of what's in the mystery cylinder beneath the fabric grilles and was really disappointed. A pity.
Well, Harder charges what he thinks is appropo for a difficult activity, and I can respect that. My little clones are tricky to assemble; I'm pleased that they sound as good as they do within their limitations and their faults. I've been listening to them more than my regular oddball collection of drivers, even though they'll blow them away in some respects, certainly in sheer spl. But that's why I'd like to improve on them. Not that I expect to surpass GP or HHR, but Perhaps, when I retire from my 'real job' I could Perhaps offer to people at a lower price point a decent Walsh array that wouldn't require 201 but would sound good enough to be competitive and offer the audio experience that we find so compelling....
Call it a goal. I've been toying with the idea. I don't play golf, after all. *L*
I'd rather listen to music like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSRHpA2giUk
...on something I've made, and be able to share that with someone.
(Turn the MLs' loose on the above...the 'Ridge' vid is 'a trip', as we used to say...
Crank it @ 4:00...It'll knock the dust off the screens...I like ELs' too...)I'll go looking for that laminate...
...and SAF is Important. And hopefully, she likes them if only because they make you happy. If she likes them for what they do for music, Big Win. *S*
They put up with us. We put up with them. It's all in the balance of our days...
Oh yeah, while I'm posting links...here's the news article about us I mentioned, so you don't have to go hunting about...
Asheville couple design playgrounds with fun, safety in mind | News & Observer News & Observer
Yep, that's my current holographic appearance, subject to change without notice. But the idiosyncrasies remain, much to spouses' chagrin and delight. A mixed and mix bag and baggage. *L* Now you know what to throw the rocks at.
Something I've never understood about the "new" Ohms. Back in the 70's, Marty Gersten licensed Infinity to utilize a Walsh tweeter in one of it's Monitor speakers, which has gained an almost cult following.
Infinity's rendition was not well made and thus not reliable.
About the same time, a friend of mine and I were building a two way "Walsh" speaker we dubbed the Promethian "X". We used a Seas dome tweeter as the foundation for the tweeter, and a 10" CTS woofer that we modified severely. It crossed at about 2-3 KHz, and sounded good enough to attract some investors. Long story short, the venture fell apart before we could approach Ohm for rights.
The Infinity crossed into the Walsh tweeter around 10KHz (as I understand it, this was a contractual restraint in the license agreement), which is the same area that Ohm crosses into a DOME!
Uhh, why doesn't Ohm use it's own patent and put a Walsh tweeter in their current production? They aren't that hard to build, folks.
Infinity's rendition was not well made and thus not reliable.
About the same time, a friend of mine and I were building a two way "Walsh" speaker we dubbed the Promethian "X". We used a Seas dome tweeter as the foundation for the tweeter, and a 10" CTS woofer that we modified severely. It crossed at about 2-3 KHz, and sounded good enough to attract some investors. Long story short, the venture fell apart before we could approach Ohm for rights.
The Infinity crossed into the Walsh tweeter around 10KHz (as I understand it, this was a contractual restraint in the license agreement), which is the same area that Ohm crosses into a DOME!
Uhh, why doesn't Ohm use it's own patent and put a Walsh tweeter in their current production? They aren't that hard to build, folks.
Something I've never understood about the "new" Ohms. Back in the 70's, Marty Gersten licensed Infinity to utilize a Walsh tweeter in one of it's Monitor speakers, which has gained an almost cult following.
Infinity's rendition was not well made and thus not reliable.
About the same time, a friend of mine and I were building a two way "Walsh" speaker we dubbed the Promethian "X". We used a Seas dome tweeter as the foundation for the tweeter, and an inverted 10" CTS woofer that we modified severely. It crossed at about 2-3 KHz, and sounded good enough to attract some investors. Long story short, the venture fell apart before we could approach Ohm for rights.
The Infinity crossed into the Walsh tweeter around 10KHz (as I understand it, this was a contractual restraint in the license agreement), which is the same area that Ohm crosses into a DOME!
Uhh, why doesn't Ohm use it's own patent and put a Walsh tweeter in their current production? They aren't that hard to build, folks.
Infinity's rendition was not well made and thus not reliable.
About the same time, a friend of mine and I were building a two way "Walsh" speaker we dubbed the Promethian "X". We used a Seas dome tweeter as the foundation for the tweeter, and an inverted 10" CTS woofer that we modified severely. It crossed at about 2-3 KHz, and sounded good enough to attract some investors. Long story short, the venture fell apart before we could approach Ohm for rights.
The Infinity crossed into the Walsh tweeter around 10KHz (as I understand it, this was a contractual restraint in the license agreement), which is the same area that Ohm crosses into a DOME!
Uhh, why doesn't Ohm use it's own patent and put a Walsh tweeter in their current production? They aren't that hard to build, folks.
I was working for an Infinity dealer back when those Walsh things went into production. Wow, they truly sounded awful. . . We couldn't sell a single pair, ended up sending them back. They sounded like they had been listened to on only one cut of one album. On that, they were ok... anything else, yuk.
Still somewhat distracted...
Re our '15 minutes of fame' I noted in #253, we learned this morning that the print version in the Sunday Raleigh paper appeared on the front page of section A, page 1, above the fold, under a headline...spouse and self are still a tad blown away. So I've not been thinking speakers much today, but *L* back to my 'little hobby'...
G, I owned a pair of the later versions of the Infinities that had one of those tweeters, the tall 'tower' like WTLC. The Walsh tweeter (which was one reason I purchased them, since I recognized what it was and I recalled the early Ohms) was of the foam filled ones that are subject to damage, there's a guy on eBay that repairs them that I've chatted up... The foam fill then and now struck me as, yes, a means of damping the cone but seemed like overkill. The response from it never seemed to live up to the hype.
I agree, for Ohm to use a dome now also strikes me as a real WTF. I've made a pair for use on the 3 way I've now 'somewhat' in progress. And, yeah, it wasn't real difficult to make them. 'Course, when you look at the 'Walsh' that they pair it with, which looks to this unwashed as a conventional woofer inverted above a more or less conventional enclosure... Giving them the benefit of doubt that the driver may be 'tweaked' to function more or less better in it's application, it comes off not far from some of the DIY projects I've seen, and I sure you've noted too. Gives one major pause, that does...*shrug* Beats me...but if I understood such things fully, I'd probably have a different job title and dominion over everything...
Is this one reason they only sell online? Maintaining a mystique, perhaps? Pardon me for grabbing the horse and reaching for it's jaws...
Hi, jp...Join the party *G* It may appear we're urinating on icons, but I'll assure you it's all an allusion...illusion...whatever....
(*LOL* And I got that comment pass the 'censor' that monitors our language. Lesson: Don't use slang. *L*)
Your comment on the subject chimes in with what I was alluding to above. There were some cuts on some albums that would make the little buggers work. Otherwise, they didn't seem to 'be there, doing something'. In retrospect, I'd run a freq sweep on those WTLCs' to see what would light them up...
I'll certainly be doing that with mine when the time comes, just to see what occurs. My current ones ( the V.3s with a 5" cone base, 1" @ vc) seem to fade out around 8~9K by ear with a sweep. The tweets are 2"/1/2", so they ought to go higher. No edge damping or infill yet; I'm going to wait until they 'speak' and perhaps give me a clue as to what and where to go...
Re our '15 minutes of fame' I noted in #253, we learned this morning that the print version in the Sunday Raleigh paper appeared on the front page of section A, page 1, above the fold, under a headline...spouse and self are still a tad blown away. So I've not been thinking speakers much today, but *L* back to my 'little hobby'...
G, I owned a pair of the later versions of the Infinities that had one of those tweeters, the tall 'tower' like WTLC. The Walsh tweeter (which was one reason I purchased them, since I recognized what it was and I recalled the early Ohms) was of the foam filled ones that are subject to damage, there's a guy on eBay that repairs them that I've chatted up... The foam fill then and now struck me as, yes, a means of damping the cone but seemed like overkill. The response from it never seemed to live up to the hype.
I agree, for Ohm to use a dome now also strikes me as a real WTF. I've made a pair for use on the 3 way I've now 'somewhat' in progress. And, yeah, it wasn't real difficult to make them. 'Course, when you look at the 'Walsh' that they pair it with, which looks to this unwashed as a conventional woofer inverted above a more or less conventional enclosure... Giving them the benefit of doubt that the driver may be 'tweaked' to function more or less better in it's application, it comes off not far from some of the DIY projects I've seen, and I sure you've noted too. Gives one major pause, that does...*shrug* Beats me...but if I understood such things fully, I'd probably have a different job title and dominion over everything...
Is this one reason they only sell online? Maintaining a mystique, perhaps? Pardon me for grabbing the horse and reaching for it's jaws...
Hi, jp...Join the party *G* It may appear we're urinating on icons, but I'll assure you it's all an allusion...illusion...whatever....
(*LOL* And I got that comment pass the 'censor' that monitors our language. Lesson: Don't use slang. *L*)
Your comment on the subject chimes in with what I was alluding to above. There were some cuts on some albums that would make the little buggers work. Otherwise, they didn't seem to 'be there, doing something'. In retrospect, I'd run a freq sweep on those WTLCs' to see what would light them up...
I'll certainly be doing that with mine when the time comes, just to see what occurs. My current ones ( the V.3s with a 5" cone base, 1" @ vc) seem to fade out around 8~9K by ear with a sweep. The tweets are 2"/1/2", so they ought to go higher. No edge damping or infill yet; I'm going to wait until they 'speak' and perhaps give me a clue as to what and where to go...
BTB G, I just wanted to say I appreciate your company and your commentary. You've obviously a level of experience that I'm more than happy to take under advisement. It's what I hoped to run into in the forums I'm posting in. It's great to hear/read about the 'been there/did that' experiences to minimize the clueless wandering and avoidance of dead ends. Avoidance of unnecessary frustration is priceless...
And it's great to just even chat up the 'side trips' that occurred along the way. Gives one perspective, a good thing in and of itself....*S*
And it's great to just even chat up the 'side trips' that occurred along the way. Gives one perspective, a good thing in and of itself....*S*
Way back when. .. I worked at Infinity prior to moving to the dealer. We didn't have frequency sweep equipment then.
I remember taking a "Holosonic 1" out to the parking lot to measure manually, one frequency at a time. Took most of an afternoon, and what with the reflections from the building behind and the pavement the "sweep" was awful. 20 to 30 db peaks/valleys everywhere. Did a similar test with the "1001", and noted the 12" cone breakup at 1200.... They really didn't expect it, and didn't know what to do about it. Remember, this was in 1971.
I remember taking a "Holosonic 1" out to the parking lot to measure manually, one frequency at a time. Took most of an afternoon, and what with the reflections from the building behind and the pavement the "sweep" was awful. 20 to 30 db peaks/valleys everywhere. Did a similar test with the "1001", and noted the 12" cone breakup at 1200.... They really didn't expect it, and didn't know what to do about it. Remember, this was in 1971.
*LOL* Damn, I remember both of those units! And I regarded Inf. as cutting edge at the time...which they finally lived up to, more or less. 'Course, back then, it didn't take as much to impress the average enthusiast. Now we've access to tools 'n toys that start to rival a modest lab, and you can drop enough cash on systems that can stand for a down payment on an average home or buy a nice car...
I quit chasing 'bleeding edge' audio back in the early '80s'. I really couldn't afford to play anymore, and it dawned on me that the reviews were being created by those who 'lived a life' that could allow them to discern between speaker cable qualities. And, had the sort of support that could allow a room that was dedicated to just that sort of activity. And that between my occupation which required my presence around and the use of loud machinery. And a predilection for loud live and recorded music...and vehicles... You get my drift.
Although I'm still involved with all of that by choice, I've decided to accept that given the stunted hearing that abuse and age have left my with, I'll just play about with the modest equipment that I can afford and that amuses me. It's a varied pile of varied pedigrees; I posted the list some time back here. I prefer 'flexibility' over the limits of reproduction that I can't really hear anymore, although I can still discern the qualities that one speaker over another exhibits, and when one makes vocals or instruments 'better' or 'lousy'....
...and the difference between the typical speaker array and a Walsh...
I've always liked dipoles and omnis. I like not having to be nailed down to the 'sweet spot'. I like being able to move about and not have 'the effect' collapse entirely.
It's been interesting to me that, running a 'surround' array of 4 of my clones, that 'the effect' essentially remains even if you're 'outside' of the array. And this is with them hooked up for 2 channels (LF,LR,RF,RR). Within the field, depending on what's being played and 'sweet spotting' it, instruments 'appear' to be 'elsewhere'. I suspect it's the 'mix', and/or the processing of the final recording, but that's just a guess....
It's pretty funny, frankly. And unexpected. Eventually I'd like to set it up for discrete 4 channels and see what happens, within and outside the array.
I'm not using any room treatments, panels, 'absorbers', or anything of that. A concrete floored steel building, ply walls, insulation on the ceiling 14' overhead.
Linkwitz with his Plutos' seems to be indicating to us to 'ignore the room' and concentrate on creating 'a field', that eq is just fine and active is the way to go. OK. He's spent a lifetime being Linkwitz; some seem to find that irritating. *shrug* All I know is I'm allowed my opinion, and if I'm having aural hallucinations at least I'm enjoying them....*L*
(*Whew* Long-winded for a 'quick reply'....*L*)
I quit chasing 'bleeding edge' audio back in the early '80s'. I really couldn't afford to play anymore, and it dawned on me that the reviews were being created by those who 'lived a life' that could allow them to discern between speaker cable qualities. And, had the sort of support that could allow a room that was dedicated to just that sort of activity. And that between my occupation which required my presence around and the use of loud machinery. And a predilection for loud live and recorded music...and vehicles... You get my drift.
Although I'm still involved with all of that by choice, I've decided to accept that given the stunted hearing that abuse and age have left my with, I'll just play about with the modest equipment that I can afford and that amuses me. It's a varied pile of varied pedigrees; I posted the list some time back here. I prefer 'flexibility' over the limits of reproduction that I can't really hear anymore, although I can still discern the qualities that one speaker over another exhibits, and when one makes vocals or instruments 'better' or 'lousy'....
...and the difference between the typical speaker array and a Walsh...
I've always liked dipoles and omnis. I like not having to be nailed down to the 'sweet spot'. I like being able to move about and not have 'the effect' collapse entirely.
It's been interesting to me that, running a 'surround' array of 4 of my clones, that 'the effect' essentially remains even if you're 'outside' of the array. And this is with them hooked up for 2 channels (LF,LR,RF,RR). Within the field, depending on what's being played and 'sweet spotting' it, instruments 'appear' to be 'elsewhere'. I suspect it's the 'mix', and/or the processing of the final recording, but that's just a guess....
It's pretty funny, frankly. And unexpected. Eventually I'd like to set it up for discrete 4 channels and see what happens, within and outside the array.
I'm not using any room treatments, panels, 'absorbers', or anything of that. A concrete floored steel building, ply walls, insulation on the ceiling 14' overhead.
Linkwitz with his Plutos' seems to be indicating to us to 'ignore the room' and concentrate on creating 'a field', that eq is just fine and active is the way to go. OK. He's spent a lifetime being Linkwitz; some seem to find that irritating. *shrug* All I know is I'm allowed my opinion, and if I'm having aural hallucinations at least I'm enjoying them....*L*
(*Whew* Long-winded for a 'quick reply'....*L*)