rtenyes said:
That surprises me. I upgraded the crossovers in my Ref Cons with Solen, Mills and Auricaps and I think they're significantly better. Kind of expensive to do, but I'd say they're competitive with most any speaker system up to $4000.
The biggest difference I found was changing out the 18ga iron core woofer inductor. That thing was saturating like crazy. I used a 10ga Solen Hepta-Litz, but if I was doing it again I'd just use the standard Solen 12ga air core. Either one will match the DCR of the original coil pretty well. That change really freed up the bass dynamics. The cap upgrade made the sound a little smoother and more detailed.
without any type of testing equipment i can only give a subjective account of the change w/the upgraded components. the overall sound did improve mostly in the upper end. there is now less 'smearing' of the treble and as a whole the sound is 'cleaner' with a larger sound stage (subjective,subjective...). the upgraded xovers cost me more than my ebay ref 22's. my point was that the change wasn't big or dramatic. i built a sub and added it to my system, now that was a dramatic change! i do agree that these 20+ year old speakers sound better than most hi end crap being sold now and for so much less $.
Ross,
Thanks for posting the pro22 crossover values. The pro22 and reference 22 should be very similar (?) as the main difference in these two speakers was the location of the port (back vs front). Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
The pro22 crossover is also very similar to what I found in my reference connoisseurs. There is a difference in R1 (2.7 vs 2 ohms---if I read the value on your sheet correctly).
I have inductor and capacitor capabilities on my voltmeter and I get .71 and .66 mH for my two ferrite inductors and .34 and .36 mH for my air core inductors. Does your schematic show .82 and .39 mH? (it's a bit hard to see). Interestingly, I read 56-57 uF for both of my bi-polar capacitors, which is probably within their normal range, but I also read over 50 uF for one of my 6 uF mylar caps (????---but one of my tweeters has some problems, perhaps this is why??--either that or a measurement error). Everything else was close to spec---my 10.7 uF pairs read 10.96 and 10.93.
Mark and Dan: very interesting comments. It will be interesting to see additional information you have on the crossover values.
best,
steve.
Thanks for posting the pro22 crossover values. The pro22 and reference 22 should be very similar (?) as the main difference in these two speakers was the location of the port (back vs front). Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
The pro22 crossover is also very similar to what I found in my reference connoisseurs. There is a difference in R1 (2.7 vs 2 ohms---if I read the value on your sheet correctly).
I have inductor and capacitor capabilities on my voltmeter and I get .71 and .66 mH for my two ferrite inductors and .34 and .36 mH for my air core inductors. Does your schematic show .82 and .39 mH? (it's a bit hard to see). Interestingly, I read 56-57 uF for both of my bi-polar capacitors, which is probably within their normal range, but I also read over 50 uF for one of my 6 uF mylar caps (????---but one of my tweeters has some problems, perhaps this is why??--either that or a measurement error). Everything else was close to spec---my 10.7 uF pairs read 10.96 and 10.93.
Mark and Dan: very interesting comments. It will be interesting to see additional information you have on the crossover values.
best,
steve.
Mark (hooha),
Perhaps, with your experience as a former employee when the 22's were being made, you could help clear up some questions about the drivers used in these speakers.
I have read on the net that different tweeters were used in the ref connoisseurs vs the pro22 and ref 22's; I have also read that the woofers and tweeters were the same in all 3 models---they were just handpicked to match better for the ref connoisseurs. Are either of these two scenarios correct?
I have seen tweeters marked 'PL513' 'P94C2' and 'PL9H4' What is the significance of these markings? Are they slightly different models? I have also heard that a metal tweeter and one with plastic--is this true?
thanks,
Steve.
Perhaps, with your experience as a former employee when the 22's were being made, you could help clear up some questions about the drivers used in these speakers.
I have read on the net that different tweeters were used in the ref connoisseurs vs the pro22 and ref 22's; I have also read that the woofers and tweeters were the same in all 3 models---they were just handpicked to match better for the ref connoisseurs. Are either of these two scenarios correct?
I have seen tweeters marked 'PL513' 'P94C2' and 'PL9H4' What is the significance of these markings? Are they slightly different models? I have also heard that a metal tweeter and one with plastic--is this true?
thanks,
Steve.
Thanks for putting this drawing up Ross.
I also found a 2-ohm resistor, at position R1, in both my Ref Cons and the two pairs of 22 Reference speakers I've dissassembled. Not sure which schematic shows the correct woofer inductor spec because I didn't measure.
I can post the values, or PM me and I can email you a copy of the schematic.
I also found a 2-ohm resistor, at position R1, in both my Ref Cons and the two pairs of 22 Reference speakers I've dissassembled. Not sure which schematic shows the correct woofer inductor spec because I didn't measure.
I can post the values, or PM me and I can email you a copy of the schematic.
Thanks for the uploads Ross and audiobomber. The crossovers all look parallel to me, they are just drawn a bit differently. Interesting that the parts lists shows R1 as 2.7 ohms, but it has been found as 2 ohms in several pairs now. There is still some discrepancy in the value of R1. We've seen .82 mH on the pro22 schematic, .995 on the last schematic, and I was told .77 for the ref conns by a tech at Energy.
Steve.
Steve.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.