Hello everyone,
I came across this forum as I decided I'd might like to start discovering and building my own speakers. So thought this might be a good place to start.
Let me just say this first: I am aware that speaker-building is not a trivial thing.
The only speakers I ever built were my DBA-subwoofers, which I calculated in WinISD and that's it. I didn't really measure anything apart from setting the DBA up. They sound good.
First let me give some important facts:
- most likely 2-way, possibly D'Appolito, 8'' concept
- positioned most likely close to the wall, and most likely corner (fronts surrounded with Rockwool to optimize as much as possible)
- Room is 25m2, 2,10-2,20m ceiling
- current amp is Marantz SR7009, nothing else
- Music-Style: orchestral film music (think Hans Zimmer concert in Prague in surround), classical, electronic, David Garett, Celine Dion, Queen, Chet Atkins, Diana Krall, Dire Straits, Enya etc.
- Home Cinema usage: they need to provide somewhat high SPL (I don't need reference levels, like over 110dB, but over 100dB for sure)
- Sound-Preference is clear highs, punchy sound, big soundstage
So, and a short story long:
Having only a set of Norwegian XTZ 99.36 and 99.26 MKII speakers, I decided I might dive into making something more to my liking. XTZ aren't "bad", I just expect a little more from the speaker. However, financially, I can't afford €2000+ per speaker. Rather couple of hundreds.
I also have a pair of Genelec 1031s, which I really like the sound of, and would be looking to creating something similar, albeit a bit more "bigger" sound, because I'd like to use it for both music listening and home cinema.
I was looking at Arendal 1723 Monitors at first. However, pricey also, and since I don't need the looks, because I won't be seeing the speakers (they are hidden behind acoustically transparent screen and cloth), I guess I can save on Arendal looks and go for a cheaper speaker, possibly running it active off of the Xilica DSP and Monacor power amp(s). As far as I read, doing that is the most flexible way at configuring (and tweaking) your speakers. No need for built-in crossovers, but rather digitally.
So basically looking to build a 2-way system, most likely either a big(er) woofer or two smaller ones, maybe 8inch, possibly in D'Appolito, similar to 1723s.
It should simply be a solid box, I need to learn what goes inside (walls, separators, whatever), which drivers I can take, size of the box etc. They can be ugly, don't care, I will paint them black and never see them again - but I want to hear them ;-)
They need to be efficient in the area they work, and since they supported well with the subs and cutoff usually around 80-100Hz, they should have their strong side with above 100Hz, they should play well for voices, orchestral music, classics, rock, punchy electronic music, films (sfx) etc.
Efficiency is the keyword here. No special looks (no spouse problem), no low frequency extension, no bass reflex, and size is quite flexible. I have 50cm depth, and most likely at least 1m height, even more if needed (I need space for acoustic treatment too).
I also need all 7 with the preferrably same drivers. So I need to be somewhat flexible to build them "flat", for the walls. Arendal surrounds speakers come to mind, a design I've been seeing on some YT videos too, and with other speakers.
Without having to fix myself on anything, looking at the quality chassis like Scan Speak, I am not shy of using around €200 per chassis, if that really qualifies for the great sound.
My room is 25m2 (6,4x3,8), ceiling is 2,10-2,20m.
So... I am also not shy of work.
What I am shy of is shelling lots of useless money... wood is not a problem, time also not, but I can't be wrong on the hardware.
When it comes to what I know, in general:
- I know how to work with REW, I've measured the room, I tried applying some acoustics etc.
- I know what a frequency response is and how to read it
- not that good at understanding phase (I know the theory of it, however not able to understand it in REW)
- I'm ok with wood, so I am able to build my own box, as long as it's not too complex
I am however bad at math and most likely physics, so I need to know if I can make it without. And under math I understand algebra and more complex calculus.
So, I hope I have at least presented a little what I'd like to do, and hope you can give me some pointouts at where to start.
Thank you!
I came across this forum as I decided I'd might like to start discovering and building my own speakers. So thought this might be a good place to start.
Let me just say this first: I am aware that speaker-building is not a trivial thing.
The only speakers I ever built were my DBA-subwoofers, which I calculated in WinISD and that's it. I didn't really measure anything apart from setting the DBA up. They sound good.
First let me give some important facts:
- most likely 2-way, possibly D'Appolito, 8'' concept
- positioned most likely close to the wall, and most likely corner (fronts surrounded with Rockwool to optimize as much as possible)
- Room is 25m2, 2,10-2,20m ceiling
- current amp is Marantz SR7009, nothing else
- Music-Style: orchestral film music (think Hans Zimmer concert in Prague in surround), classical, electronic, David Garett, Celine Dion, Queen, Chet Atkins, Diana Krall, Dire Straits, Enya etc.
- Home Cinema usage: they need to provide somewhat high SPL (I don't need reference levels, like over 110dB, but over 100dB for sure)
- Sound-Preference is clear highs, punchy sound, big soundstage
So, and a short story long:
Having only a set of Norwegian XTZ 99.36 and 99.26 MKII speakers, I decided I might dive into making something more to my liking. XTZ aren't "bad", I just expect a little more from the speaker. However, financially, I can't afford €2000+ per speaker. Rather couple of hundreds.
I also have a pair of Genelec 1031s, which I really like the sound of, and would be looking to creating something similar, albeit a bit more "bigger" sound, because I'd like to use it for both music listening and home cinema.
I was looking at Arendal 1723 Monitors at first. However, pricey also, and since I don't need the looks, because I won't be seeing the speakers (they are hidden behind acoustically transparent screen and cloth), I guess I can save on Arendal looks and go for a cheaper speaker, possibly running it active off of the Xilica DSP and Monacor power amp(s). As far as I read, doing that is the most flexible way at configuring (and tweaking) your speakers. No need for built-in crossovers, but rather digitally.
So basically looking to build a 2-way system, most likely either a big(er) woofer or two smaller ones, maybe 8inch, possibly in D'Appolito, similar to 1723s.
It should simply be a solid box, I need to learn what goes inside (walls, separators, whatever), which drivers I can take, size of the box etc. They can be ugly, don't care, I will paint them black and never see them again - but I want to hear them ;-)
They need to be efficient in the area they work, and since they supported well with the subs and cutoff usually around 80-100Hz, they should have their strong side with above 100Hz, they should play well for voices, orchestral music, classics, rock, punchy electronic music, films (sfx) etc.
Efficiency is the keyword here. No special looks (no spouse problem), no low frequency extension, no bass reflex, and size is quite flexible. I have 50cm depth, and most likely at least 1m height, even more if needed (I need space for acoustic treatment too).
I also need all 7 with the preferrably same drivers. So I need to be somewhat flexible to build them "flat", for the walls. Arendal surrounds speakers come to mind, a design I've been seeing on some YT videos too, and with other speakers.
Without having to fix myself on anything, looking at the quality chassis like Scan Speak, I am not shy of using around €200 per chassis, if that really qualifies for the great sound.
My room is 25m2 (6,4x3,8), ceiling is 2,10-2,20m.
So... I am also not shy of work.
What I am shy of is shelling lots of useless money... wood is not a problem, time also not, but I can't be wrong on the hardware.
When it comes to what I know, in general:
- I know how to work with REW, I've measured the room, I tried applying some acoustics etc.
- I know what a frequency response is and how to read it
- not that good at understanding phase (I know the theory of it, however not able to understand it in REW)
- I'm ok with wood, so I am able to build my own box, as long as it's not too complex
I am however bad at math and most likely physics, so I need to know if I can make it without. And under math I understand algebra and more complex calculus.
So, I hope I have at least presented a little what I'd like to do, and hope you can give me some pointouts at where to start.
Thank you!
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So your budget is a couple of hundred euros per speaker enclosure?
It appears that your country of residence is Norway.
That knowledge helps when recommending suppliers of loudspeaker drivers.
EDIT: I see you mentioned further down, a sum of 200 euro per speaker chassis. Can you expand on your total budget?
It appears that your country of residence is Norway.
That knowledge helps when recommending suppliers of loudspeaker drivers.
EDIT: I see you mentioned further down, a sum of 200 euro per speaker chassis. Can you expand on your total budget?
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Hello,
thank you for the reply.
Budget for the speakers I'd put to about €700 for the fronts (LCR), and not more than €500 for surrounds.
No, not Norway, I'm from Austria. Just bought XTZ directly from Norway some 8 years ago.
So basically Europe-based, this is why I was looking at Scan Speak. My subwoofers have Scan Speak, and I find them very good.
thank you for the reply.
Budget for the speakers I'd put to about €700 for the fronts (LCR), and not more than €500 for surrounds.
No, not Norway, I'm from Austria. Just bought XTZ directly from Norway some 8 years ago.
So basically Europe-based, this is why I was looking at Scan Speak. My subwoofers have Scan Speak, and I find them very good.
EDIT: total budget I am reckoning with around €8000.
What I aim to get for this though:
- miniDSP with Dirac Live (around €1000)
- 2x Xilica 4080 (for total of 7 channels) - €2300
- 4x Monacor STA-2000D - €1400
- Speakers (7 pcs) - €4000 (depending however much on the quality, if €2000-3000 yields no viable hearable difference, then I see no point for €4000)
What I aim to get for this though:
- miniDSP with Dirac Live (around €1000)
- 2x Xilica 4080 (for total of 7 channels) - €2300
- 4x Monacor STA-2000D - €1400
- Speakers (7 pcs) - €4000 (depending however much on the quality, if €2000-3000 yields no viable hearable difference, then I see no point for €4000)
I’d love to help but I have a short attention span and struggled with the wall of text, maybe you could make a summary post like:
- 2-way 8” concept (or multi-way?)
- inwall concept (or did I get that right?)
- what’s your room size
- what’s your amp setup
- what’s your music preference
- what’s your preferred sound (warm, cold, loud, deep whatever)
I’m also afraid your budget may be short.
Edit: sorry I think I got the budget wrong completely. It was not 200 total but per speaker, total 7 of them for surround?
- 2-way 8” concept (or multi-way?)
- inwall concept (or did I get that right?)
- what’s your room size
- what’s your amp setup
- what’s your music preference
- what’s your preferred sound (warm, cold, loud, deep whatever)
I’m also afraid your budget may be short.
Edit: sorry I think I got the budget wrong completely. It was not 200 total but per speaker, total 7 of them for surround?
Correct: €200 per CHASSIS. As I said, not shy of an expensive chassis, which puts a speaker price to a max about €700 for fronts. But as I said, money vs performance. It should be a good price-performance ratio, with preference to higher quality.
Currently I am using XT32 correction and would like to replace it - hence miniDSP Dirac Live.
If I go active speakers (without crossover), I need a digital crossover.
And yes, it is very much needed to run DSP on all. They all depend on each other and are measured against each other, if I understood it correctly.
They system will in the end be "simple:
7.1.4 Atmos setup with 8 subwoofer DBA.
Right now we are discussing the "7".
Looking to build 7 speakers, 3 of the same size (bigger, fronts, 3 chassis per speaker, 2-way, D'Appolito), and surrounds (classical 2-way, 2-chassis).
Are you talking about something like this?
FollHank Eine Bauhilfe - PDF Kostenfreier Download
FollHank Eine Bauhilfe - PDF Kostenfreier Download
I’m no expert on home theatre. Dolby atmos for all I know may have requirement like THX did back in the day that require certain power sensitivity and SPL on each channel but I really don’t know. 7.1.4 is a bit unclear what means to me. 4 subwoofers? I guess there are tons of options for you here. Hopefully someone can help more. Looks like a fun project though. Could you draw the room? Not sure 8” will be sufficient for the DBA subs, this “technology” is very inefficient.
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My asking here is not home cinema specific, otherwise I would have put more weight on that. It is "as well".
I think you are misunderstanding me.
I am looking to build LCR speakers, which I think could have 8inch drivers. Additionally, I have already 8 of 12inch subwoofers, each on opposite wall for DBA.
Thank you for the link, this seems interesting, and is somewhat in the way of the link I've sent.
HOWEVER, the reason for me posting here is that I wanted to know what recommendations here would be for someone that is NOT completely home cinema oriented.
I am find with such speakers if they are also OK for music.
My problem is that I've never heard such speakers at home.
With "such speakers" I mean horns.
I think you are misunderstanding me.
I am looking to build LCR speakers, which I think could have 8inch drivers. Additionally, I have already 8 of 12inch subwoofers, each on opposite wall for DBA.
Thank you for the link, this seems interesting, and is somewhat in the way of the link I've sent.
HOWEVER, the reason for me posting here is that I wanted to know what recommendations here would be for someone that is NOT completely home cinema oriented.
I am find with such speakers if they are also OK for music.
My problem is that I've never heard such speakers at home.
With "such speakers" I mean horns.
So you have 8x 12” subs and you want something to keep up with that, active crossovers, DSP etc. and you don’t care about the looks. That gives you the freedom of choosing whatever you want really. Do you have any preference? It’s difficult for us to list up all the good drivers in the world. What about a 10” coaxial design? 7 of them. Simple and effective. Put them in 30-40l box to cover 80Hz and up or a little bigger for L and R fronts if you plan to not use the subs for music. I know what I would do but that’s just because I have preference and therefore a bias towards certain speakers.
One example:
FaitalPRO | Coaxial Loudspeakers | 10HX230 (8Ω)
One example:
FaitalPRO | Coaxial Loudspeakers | 10HX230 (8Ω)
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What do you mean when you say 3 chassis per speaker for fronts and two chassis back. I see you would prefer D'Appolito so maybe coax drivers isn’t what you want then. Dual 8 inch plus a small horn perhaps? Use PA drivers to get the sensitivity and SPL needed? What PA brands are available locally? Faital, BMS etc.
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Oh, so it's not really important how you design the box, flat frontally (like I posted above) or Arendal 1723, which is long-ish towards back, as long as you make the correct volumen?
I see that the point in the front of the speaker is to keep it as small as possible, at least side to side, not necessarily vertically, and it then goes towards back. I would also need surrounds to be as flat as possible, not more than 17cm. Fronts are relatively flexible.
What would be a difference between two 8inch drivers vs single 12inch driver, would two drivers be beneficial for whatever?
Is it beneficial to use D'Appolito? I read that it's actually impossible to do correct design due to size of the bass drivers, if they are 8inches. Something to do with the distance between the drivers.
When I say 3 chassis, I mean 2-3 drivers per speaker. Surrounds will definitely have only two, one tweeter one woofer, but the fronts I am flexible - I am thinking either 2x 8inch below and above tweeter OR tweeter + 12" woofer. I guess with two 8" I would achieve more pressure in the mid frequencies and with woofer not as much? Even two 8" would do well up to 80Hz.
And yes, I am flexible when it comes to the tweeter, considering the price of course, up to some €200 as I said.
However, not sure what differences are sound-wise when it comes to naked tweeter vs horn vs waveguide. Is it achievable to get 105dB at 3,5m from the speaker out of a pure tweeter (without distortion), or does this definitely require a horn?
I see that the point in the front of the speaker is to keep it as small as possible, at least side to side, not necessarily vertically, and it then goes towards back. I would also need surrounds to be as flat as possible, not more than 17cm. Fronts are relatively flexible.
What would be a difference between two 8inch drivers vs single 12inch driver, would two drivers be beneficial for whatever?
Is it beneficial to use D'Appolito? I read that it's actually impossible to do correct design due to size of the bass drivers, if they are 8inches. Something to do with the distance between the drivers.
When I say 3 chassis, I mean 2-3 drivers per speaker. Surrounds will definitely have only two, one tweeter one woofer, but the fronts I am flexible - I am thinking either 2x 8inch below and above tweeter OR tweeter + 12" woofer. I guess with two 8" I would achieve more pressure in the mid frequencies and with woofer not as much? Even two 8" would do well up to 80Hz.
And yes, I am flexible when it comes to the tweeter, considering the price of course, up to some €200 as I said.
However, not sure what differences are sound-wise when it comes to naked tweeter vs horn vs waveguide. Is it achievable to get 105dB at 3,5m from the speaker out of a pure tweeter (without distortion), or does this definitely require a horn?