Hi Ro808. As you seem to know everything about (horn-)speaker, I wonder if you can tell me a few details about Strauss SE-MF-2, which is a reference monitor and wouldnt be wrong at all in this thread. A few Pros claim this to be "best monitor they ever heard", "best transient", etc. I have heard the Strauss in Berlin and I was surprised, so to speak, how great the difference between the recordings were with this speaker, sometimes dull and sometimes bright, by no means allways nice. As far as I know, the woofer is a TAD 1601, and I thought the CD would be ND2060A or 2080A from 18sound, modified, of course, but I´m not so sure anymore. By the way, great thread, made a lot of fun reading it!
That horn is jbl 2382a I believe. I like the monitor, the looks of it, but the horn uses a diffraction slot, which I wanted to avoid, other wise, I really like the horn. This and the 2384 are some of the best jbl horns. The "truthfullness" you describe is a trait, that is akin to horns and compression drivers in general, its why I have chosen to use a cd/horn combo in my design. I personally think the lack of signal compression, as ascribed to horn loaded drivers, is responsible for this trait and with that being said, don't limit yourself.
SO if a full range mated to a low crossed woofer, is called a FAST or WAW, what do/can we call a 2way mated to a low crossed woofer? TWAS? Two way assisted Sub?
I haven't tackled anything regarding certain components of the enclosure yet, and would like opinions and on best practices, if you would so kindly take the time to reply.
Wire gauge; 10 gauge, inside the box, maybe smaller for the CD, ran to what? Banana plugs? I am extremely minimalistic and have no issue running a straight wire from the woofer to the amp lol. I've got 4 amps, if I use 3 I can save the 4th for the upcoming subs project.
Driver mounting; I've seen some good ideas of how to do this...if I double up the front baffle might not be an issue either way. Counter sink the woofers. Not sure exactly what hardware is best here.
Wood material, Mdf of course, 3/4" with double panels on the front baffle? Bracing? is that really needed?
Porting; there's always the go to slot port, but maybe I can do like 15, 0.5" holes or something
Insulation; do I want? Maybe a layer of rock wool?
Things I haven't thought of that might apply to this chapter of design? I plan on using epoxy resin as apart of the finish. It should add mass to the enclosure walls as well. Will likely round the front baffle edges, no one really feed into the large tall side waveguide idea I presented earlier for the woofers. Ideas, comments, please and thank you.
I haven't tackled anything regarding certain components of the enclosure yet, and would like opinions and on best practices, if you would so kindly take the time to reply.
Wire gauge; 10 gauge, inside the box, maybe smaller for the CD, ran to what? Banana plugs? I am extremely minimalistic and have no issue running a straight wire from the woofer to the amp lol. I've got 4 amps, if I use 3 I can save the 4th for the upcoming subs project.
Driver mounting; I've seen some good ideas of how to do this...if I double up the front baffle might not be an issue either way. Counter sink the woofers. Not sure exactly what hardware is best here.
Wood material, Mdf of course, 3/4" with double panels on the front baffle? Bracing? is that really needed?
Porting; there's always the go to slot port, but maybe I can do like 15, 0.5" holes or something
Insulation; do I want? Maybe a layer of rock wool?
Things I haven't thought of that might apply to this chapter of design? I plan on using epoxy resin as apart of the finish. It should add mass to the enclosure walls as well. Will likely round the front baffle edges, no one really feed into the large tall side waveguide idea I presented earlier for the woofers. Ideas, comments, please and thank you.
Closure
Hi David,
I enjoyed your contribution, and the "Insanity" is to be found elsewhere.
I took my wife to a casino this weekend, so spare time is available (while in the hotel room) to post this note to you.
For a parabola opening to the left with the following parameters:
Vertex: 0,0
Focus: 1,0
Directrix: -1
Axis: y = 0
The formula is:
Y^2 = 4*X [1]
Or
Y = ± 2*X^(1/2) [2]
And the 1st derivative is
dy/dx = tan(ø) = 1/(X^(1/2)) [3]
At the limit as x --> oo
1/(X^(1/2)) --> 0 [4]
and
ø --> 0 as well.
Which yields a line parallel to the axis passing through a tangent point.
So long as the parabola remains finite, the slope of its tangent (in either leg), will continue to approach the slope of line parallel to its axis as x approaches, but does not reach infinity.
When a leg of this parabola is rotated about its axis to form the surface of a parabolic horn, a line parallel to its axis and passing through any tangent point (except 0,0) forms the cylindrical reference surface which the tangent cone is approaching, but passing through it as well.
If we now take a pair of points such that 0 << x1 < x2< oo, then y2-y1 ---> 0 as x1 -> oo. This resulting cone frustum will almost be a cylinder. At very large magnitudes of x1, such differences in y1 and y2 will diminish to unmeasurable values that are only of academic interest. That means a cylindrical surface of expanding radius is being approached but never reached.
This is no different than the cone of expanding radius that is being approached by a hyperbola at a tangent point. The only difference between the two that has been address before, is the parabola does not have the asymptotes of a hyperbola; and a hyperbola's slope, must approach some finite value <> 0 as its x approaches infinity.
This is why, parabolic horn is sometimes referred to as a cylindrical horn and hyperbolic horn is sometimes referred to as conical horn. It is the geometrical shape that they are approaching but never reaching..
Regards,
Bill
P.S.: Sorry Earl, this is much better than what I posted earlier.
Hi David,
I enjoyed your contribution, and the "Insanity" is to be found elsewhere.
I took my wife to a casino this weekend, so spare time is available (while in the hotel room) to post this note to you.
For a parabola opening to the left with the following parameters:
Vertex: 0,0
Focus: 1,0
Directrix: -1
Axis: y = 0
The formula is:
Y^2 = 4*X [1]
Or
Y = ± 2*X^(1/2) [2]
And the 1st derivative is
dy/dx = tan(ø) = 1/(X^(1/2)) [3]
At the limit as x --> oo
1/(X^(1/2)) --> 0 [4]
and
ø --> 0 as well.
Which yields a line parallel to the axis passing through a tangent point.
So long as the parabola remains finite, the slope of its tangent (in either leg), will continue to approach the slope of line parallel to its axis as x approaches, but does not reach infinity.
When a leg of this parabola is rotated about its axis to form the surface of a parabolic horn, a line parallel to its axis and passing through any tangent point (except 0,0) forms the cylindrical reference surface which the tangent cone is approaching, but passing through it as well.
If we now take a pair of points such that 0 << x1 < x2< oo, then y2-y1 ---> 0 as x1 -> oo. This resulting cone frustum will almost be a cylinder. At very large magnitudes of x1, such differences in y1 and y2 will diminish to unmeasurable values that are only of academic interest. That means a cylindrical surface of expanding radius is being approached but never reached.
This is no different than the cone of expanding radius that is being approached by a hyperbola at a tangent point. The only difference between the two that has been address before, is the parabola does not have the asymptotes of a hyperbola; and a hyperbola's slope, must approach some finite value <> 0 as its x approaches infinity.
This is why, parabolic horn is sometimes referred to as a cylindrical horn and hyperbolic horn is sometimes referred to as conical horn. It is the geometrical shape that they are approaching but never reaching..
Regards,
Bill
P.S.: Sorry Earl, this is much better than what I posted earlier.
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From this I gather you are claiming that the "horn" approaches a cone. Is this what you are saying. A "cylindrical surface of expanding radius" is a cone, correct?
Hmm, wasn't meant to be, but I come from two long lines of irascibles, so stating the obvious would tend to bring it out.
Yeah, is really nice when the entire telephone BW is through a single horn and preferably a WG, but it's so big it needs to be a ~ full range Synergy concept.
OK, but are you going to be only 1 m away?
My ears slam shut when rap, techno, et al is detected, though have suffered through some of it in movie soundtracks
, but didn't know it was a special controller or its name.Without subs, you'll have to kill the LFE, but otherwise, action flicks, pipe organ symphonies really challenge an audio system and for literally [arm] hair raising transients [at least through DSL's HT 5.2 setup with SH50/DTS20], the electrical storm at the end of Spiderman 2 BD.
The ability to replicate the intensity of an electrical strike has been my goal since I got serious with [horn] speaker design and have come really close with much modded or scratch-built separates that were physically in time, up to 112 dB eff., etc., but the DSL system popped my hair up with the memories of being next to three strikes on separate occasions, so doubt your separates will do it, but at least the signal's there assuming the mass quantity of electronics that was behind me wasn't somehow enhancing it.
The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts: The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
GM
Woofer is indeed TAD 1601, Horn is JBL 2386a and the 2" compression driver is a Sony SUP T-11, at least in the original version.Hi Ro808. As you seem to know everything about (horn-)speaker, I wonder if you can tell me a few details about Strauss SE-MF-2, which is a reference monitor and wouldnt be wrong at all in this thread. A few Pros claim this to be "best monitor they ever heard", "best transient", etc. I have heard the Strauss in Berlin and I was surprised, so to speak, how great the difference between the recordings were with this speaker, sometimes dull and sometimes bright, by no means allways nice. As far as I know, the woofer is a TAD 1601, and I thought the CD would be ND2060A or 2080A from 18sound, modified, of course, but I´m not so sure anymore. By the way, great thread, made a lot of fun reading it!
Attachments
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The claim is it approaches a cylinder. The only hitch is that the cylinder is of ever-increasing radius. It's just crazy
BTW, that would be a strange definition of a cone but it would be wrong anyways. Parabola doesn't approach a line, it doesn't have an asymptote.
Subs? The 18H+ has a 29 Hz Fs, making it a woofer, so you got two woofers XO'd where?
Or planning on running them in tandem to the horn?
Presume this is a tri-amped system otherwise with different power curves, one will tend to 'hog' the majority of available power. A way somewhat around this is to average the specs to create a compound driver for a single vented or sealed cab/one amp.
GM
Wrong!
The issue has to do with slope and curvature only and in the limit of x -->oo, nothing else. WHG
The claim is it approaches a cylinder. The only hitch is that the cylinder is of ever-increasing radius. It's just crazy
BTW, that would be a strange definition of a cone but it would be wrong anyways. Parabola doesn't approach a line, it doesn't have an asymptote.
The issue has to do with slope and curvature only and in the limit of x -->oo, nothing else. WHG
No. It has to do with how fast it converges or if it does converge at all (which it does not). Your math is very poor but I'm not the one to teach you.
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WHG
I already gave you an example in post #3040 of how the rate of change can have limit of zero for x-->oo yet the sum may be completely different, one of them infinite (which is the case of parabola). That is the definition of "approaching" to something, it must converge in total. The limit of the rate of change itself is not enough.
I already gave you an example in post #3040 of how the rate of change can have limit of zero for x-->oo yet the sum may be completely different, one of them infinite (which is the case of parabola). That is the definition of "approaching" to something, it must converge in total. The limit of the rate of change itself is not enough.
I had every intention of not making any more "observations" about parabolic horns, but since the issue doesn't seem to want to go away, I simply cannot resist .
I thought my earlier comment that a parabolic horn is defined as one that has a linear increase in cross-sectional area as a function of distance along the axis, would have been sufficient to end the debate, but apparently not.
If the cross-sectional area keeps increasing at a linear rate, independent of the axial length, then an axisymmetric parabolic horn cannot possibly become a cylinder in the limit because to do so would require that the cross-sectional area eventually becomes constant with increasing length, which is never going to happen - the area at the mouth end keeps increasing at the same linear rate as for the throat end.
The reason that a parabolic horn is sometimes called a cylindrical horn has nothing to do with the limiting axisymmetric profile. It is because in cylindrical coordinates it has the shape of a wedge of uniform thickness, and admits 1P waves in the form of concentric cylindrical shells if driven by a source that produces cylindrical waves.
Marcel - please note the presence of smileys.
.I thought my earlier comment that a parabolic horn is defined as one that has a linear increase in cross-sectional area as a function of distance along the axis, would have been sufficient to end the debate, but apparently not
.If the cross-sectional area keeps increasing at a linear rate, independent of the axial length, then an axisymmetric parabolic horn cannot possibly become a cylinder in the limit because to do so would require that the cross-sectional area eventually becomes constant with increasing length, which is never going to happen - the area at the mouth end keeps increasing at the same linear rate as for the throat end.
The reason that a parabolic horn is sometimes called a cylindrical horn has nothing to do with the limiting axisymmetric profile. It is because in cylindrical coordinates it has the shape of a wedge of uniform thickness, and admits 1P waves in the form of concentric cylindrical shells if driven by a source that produces cylindrical waves.
Marcel - please note the presence of smileys
.
Come on, you should have enjoyed the time and not think of this nonsense again
David - noticed
parabolic horn
Do you know any real incarnations of the parabolic horn type?
The parabolic mirror plays a very important role for radar or satellite techniques because of the existing focal point.
I had every intention of not making any more "observations" about parabolic horns, but since the issue doesn't seem to want to go away, I simply cannot resist
Do you know any real incarnations of the parabolic horn type?
The parabolic mirror plays a very important role for radar or satellite techniques because of the existing focal point.
