Hi,
I'm pretty familiar with the properties of paper, kevlar, Alu and ceramic drivers - but how would a polymer driver compare? Any articles / links people can share?
My favorite mid range drivers are Spendor D series ('EP77' Polymer) and Harbeth which is also polymer I believe.
Which manufacturers are good for polymer mid range drivers?
I'm trying to avoid a dry sound, whilst maintaining a decent amount of detail - I am assuming that the acoustic properties and suspension of the driver will affect this. Just like Harbeth include for some reverberation in their cabinets, I think this might also be useful to me to have more of a rich, 'wet', creamy and non-fatiguing mid range.
Thanks
I'm pretty familiar with the properties of paper, kevlar, Alu and ceramic drivers - but how would a polymer driver compare? Any articles / links people can share?
My favorite mid range drivers are Spendor D series ('EP77' Polymer) and Harbeth which is also polymer I believe.
Which manufacturers are good for polymer mid range drivers?
I'm trying to avoid a dry sound, whilst maintaining a decent amount of detail - I am assuming that the acoustic properties and suspension of the driver will affect this. Just like Harbeth include for some reverberation in their cabinets, I think this might also be useful to me to have more of a rich, 'wet', creamy and non-fatiguing mid range.
Thanks
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In general terms, polymer diaphragms have excellent internal damping (benign break-up), but poor stiffness (loss of detail).
Metal diaphragms are the opposite.
Good ole paper cones are the goldilocks compromise, and still arguably the best choice most of the times. They can be improved further by the judicious addition of carbon fibres and other fancy 'additives'.
Metal diaphragms are the opposite.
Good ole paper cones are the goldilocks compromise, and still arguably the best choice most of the times. They can be improved further by the judicious addition of carbon fibres and other fancy 'additives'.
Audio Technology makes very high quality drivers with plastic cones. Plastic cones are usually some variant of polyethylene, like plastic milk bottles.
The best speaker I've heard with plastic cones was the Peak Consult Zoltan, which uses a 5" Audio Technologies midrange driver and two 7" AT woofers. This speaker is extremely smooth and refined, but still adequately detailed and exciting. Very "Musical"
Personally, I do prefer the more lively and detailed sound of more rigid cones, but I could easily grow accustomed to the Zoltan. Harbeths and Spendors, however, are too laid back and boring for my taste. ymmv...
Euphoria comes from drugs, not drivers... and a "rich, wet, creamy midrange"??? What drugs ARE you smoking, dude?
Learn how to properly design a loudspeaker and crossover, and what happens when you stick that in your listening space, and you will at least have a chance to find what you are seeking. HINT: it's not the cone material that is resulting in the severely colored reproduction from a particular loudspeaker!
Thanks for the feedback - Audio Technologies sounds like a great match, decent pricing too.
Caffeine free actually
I have read a fair amount about loudspeaker design now, so I understand that the drivers are not the final outcome - but I'm just seeking to find out what is available."Learn how to properly design a loudspeaker and crossover, and what happens when you stick that in your listening space, and you will at least have a chance to find what you are seeking. HINT: it's not the cone material that is resulting in the severely colored reproduction from a particular loudspeaker!"
This
Almost ANY speaker driver will tend to do at least some range of freqs well, and the way the system disperses energy into space can make good drivers sound colored. learning to work WITH the driver (crossover finesse) will yeald far more sonic benefit than trying to squeeze some highly regarded driver into use beyond its ability.
This
Almost ANY speaker driver will tend to do at least some range of freqs well, and the way the system disperses energy into space can make good drivers sound colored. learning to work WITH the driver (crossover finesse) will yeald far more sonic benefit than trying to squeeze some highly regarded driver into use beyond its ability.
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That came to my mind also very instantaneously, and I was about suggesting to him to coat his diaphragms with opium latex...
Best regards!
Believe me, it can contribute a lot.
To the author - find a midrange that has high 2nd order distortion and low odd order distortion, then stick it in an overly damped enclosure. Ideal would be a cheap treated paper cone driver with a soft dust cap or a vintage unit. You may like the Visaton FRS8 in that regard.
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You got to warm them up first. Massage the cones a bit. Ramp up the power slowly then really crank the wick up on 'er.....what are we talking about again?
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Quote: In general terms, polymer diaphragms have excellent internal damping (benign break-up), but poor stiffness (loss of detail).
@Marco Gea: care to quantify or clarify the statement above? What the heck is loss of detail and how do we measure that?
BTW: I am all with Charlie Laub: it is not the cone, it is the system design.
Eelco
@Marco Gea: care to quantify or clarify the statement above? What the heck is loss of detail and how do we measure that?
BTW: I am all with Charlie Laub: it is not the cone, it is the system design.
Eelco
Believe me, it can contribute a lot.
To the author - find a midrange that has high 2nd order distortion and low odd order distortion, then stick it in an overly damped enclosure. Ideal would be a cheap treated paper cone driver with a soft dust cap or a vintage unit. You may like the Visaton FRS8 in that regard.
This is useful - thanks. To everyone replying, yes I appreciate that a large amount of the sound that I am trying to describe is reliant upon system design. Having said that Spendor and Harbeth do use polymer mid-ranges, so there must be good reason for this - my question was not about system design, it's about drivers. Since the sound I like is that of Spendor and Harbeth and they use polymer drivers, then this is a place to start.
With regards to my terminology, 'Wet' is the only way I can think of describing the opposite of a 'dry' sounding speaker. I found some chat about how this could be interpreted here. It can be a struggle to describe the characteristics of a speaker. Perhaps when I say 'Wet' I also mean smooth, natural, lack of brittleness as well - something I associate with Spendor and Harbeth mid-ranges.
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I noticed that using acoustic LR2 crossover topology for mid-tweeter gave more natural, perhaps even wet sound than LR4. Shallow slopes require a well behaving midrange, cone resonance is the key. Polycones usually shine in this aspect.
In my 3-ways I have Audax HM100, which looks a lot like the Aurum Cantus that adason linked. Try it!
In my 3-ways I have Audax HM100, which looks a lot like the Aurum Cantus that adason linked. Try it!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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