I believe that this is probably what you're talking about:
One of the inspirations for the K-402-MEH was this loudspeaker, the Klipsch KPT-942:
The reason for the MEH configuration of dual 15" woofers and full-range K-402 horn is just that...full range operation. I've heard the KPT-942 in the same room as a Klipsch Jubilee and can tell you that the limitations of reflex bass--even dual 15" woofers, is a significant distraction in its performance as compared to the fully horn loaded bass of the Klipsch Jubilee:
The horn that you reference (JBL 2384) is a compromise on the requirement of full-range operation. If you want to build a variation of the "small syns" that have been promoted in another thread, found here: Small Syns, you can certainly go that direction using the JBL horn mentioned above. If you intend to build a variation on a "small syn", then I recommend that thread highly.
If instead you're interested in full range operation in a package that's 1/3rd the size of a Jubilee, this thread is the only thread on this forum that I'm aware of that is dedicated to that purpose. The K-402-MEH actually has polar directivity that matches the Jubilee bass bin and the Danley SH-96 (horizontal directivity down to ~100 Hz). The reason for hanging on to this capability of full-range operation is the difference in sound quality that you get with the Jubilee, but without having to use a separate bass bin--in a package that's 1/3 the size of the Jubilee.
In the end, its up to the individual to pursue that which appeals to their needs. This thread is devoted to a special type of MEH, one that needs no other bass augmentation--not even a subwoofer if employed in quarter or eighth space loading (i.e., a demonstrated -3 dB point of 16.5 Hz), which is quite achievable without compromise to midrange sound stage width or depth due to its outstanding full-range directivity.
Chris
Thanks Chris, that was a very thorough response and I appreciate it. I'm definitely interested in a full range MEH, but thought the JBL 2384 might be good candidate especially since its an easier to source horn. Definitely will be following along to see where this goes and if a kit ever becomes a possibility. I'll check out the other unity horn threads as well. I bet the K-402 sounds awesome....hope to hear one some day.
Kyle
Kyle
The work on ports has been substantial, making this style of horn possible.
So it is perplexing that you choose to use this deceptive language that misrepresents their function. This could mislead a newcomer, which is something a DIYer wouldn't want to do. No one else talks about them like this. Does this thread belong in this part of the forums?
You could do what I did and buy Klipsch KPT-305 midbass module assemblies (which come with a box surround), or you could instead buy KPT-402-HF to get the K-402 horn, then build your own box. If you are thinking about going that direction, I might recommend contacting user "MetropolisLakeOutfitters" on the Klipsch forum (his real name is Cory) to check his pricing relative to something like Cinequip or someone like that. I have no business interests with this guy, and have bought nothing from him, but he is highly recommended by other users.
If you instead want to go with a DIY horn at a lower cost, then you'll have to wait patiently for me to complete a mold that produces usable MEH horns that have been made for-purpose to do this design with a stiffer horn and integral woofer pads, etc., or build a dual-flare MEH horn using something like the Synergy Spreadsheet of Bill Waslo.
Chris
Chris
This is my first post in many years. First I want to thank you very much for including us in your quest in designing a better loudspeaker. You could have just designed it yourself without documenting it on this and other forums. You professional answers and attitude is very inspiring and I am very impressed with you. I would love to hear and (possibly own) one of your MEH loudspeakers. Here are the answers to your questions.
1) What common compression driver(s) and woofers would you most want to use (brand and model) in a kit?
I do not have enough experience to recommend any drivers. I would let you choose. I am very interested in having best reproduction of vocals. Is it possible to avoid a crossover in the vocal range?
2) What is the lowest crossing frequency (i.e., "fc") that you would want out of the loudspeaker?
Again, I would leave that up to you. Your K-402 MEH already goes very low (I don’t remember how low). I would put vocals above lowest frequency - we can always add subwoofers.
3) What maximum size would you be willing to build/buy for your listening environment?
No more than 51 inches wide when placed in a corner. About the size of the K-402 would be O.K. with me. I would be using a stereo pair in the corners of the room. My room is 19 feet wide by 13 feet deep. Currently my K-horns do not image well when placed 19 feet apart because the seating distance is too close. I have them moved in a few feet from the outside wall and they image much better. My projector screen is 116 wide. This determines the minimum distance between the two speakers.
4)How much would you realistically be willing to spend per loudspeaker to make them from a kit?
For a “keep forever loudspeaker” that sounds much better than the K-horn, $1-2 K.
5) Would you be willing to use an active crossover instead of passive? Yes
This is my first post in many years. First I want to thank you very much for including us in your quest in designing a better loudspeaker. You could have just designed it yourself without documenting it on this and other forums. You professional answers and attitude is very inspiring and I am very impressed with you. I would love to hear and (possibly own) one of your MEH loudspeakers. Here are the answers to your questions.
1) What common compression driver(s) and woofers would you most want to use (brand and model) in a kit?
I do not have enough experience to recommend any drivers. I would let you choose. I am very interested in having best reproduction of vocals. Is it possible to avoid a crossover in the vocal range?
2) What is the lowest crossing frequency (i.e., "fc") that you would want out of the loudspeaker?
Again, I would leave that up to you. Your K-402 MEH already goes very low (I don’t remember how low). I would put vocals above lowest frequency - we can always add subwoofers.
3) What maximum size would you be willing to build/buy for your listening environment?
No more than 51 inches wide when placed in a corner. About the size of the K-402 would be O.K. with me. I would be using a stereo pair in the corners of the room. My room is 19 feet wide by 13 feet deep. Currently my K-horns do not image well when placed 19 feet apart because the seating distance is too close. I have them moved in a few feet from the outside wall and they image much better. My projector screen is 116 wide. This determines the minimum distance between the two speakers.
4)How much would you realistically be willing to spend per loudspeaker to make them from a kit?
For a “keep forever loudspeaker” that sounds much better than the K-horn, $1-2 K.
5) Would you be willing to use an active crossover instead of passive? Yes
So..., any news?
I've been following your thread on the Klipsch forum for a couple of years. Been searching for a cheaper way to build a K-402 clone. I particularly like your thread "Subconscious Auditory Effects of Quasi-Linear Phase Loudspeakers".
I was in a band that used 2 LaScalas a side, have built Heresy clones, have heard the corner horns and something that very few have done - built several Berthas with the Levan extensions for a customer. Talk about massive overkill. But, he wanted that analog New York club sound. I've loved the sound of horns for oh, at least 35 years.
Anyway, I would want to use something that crosses ~100hz that I could use with a Skram subwoofer (Josh Ricci). The Skram sounds really nice and has that clean horn sound.
Also, ZXPC on Ebay has a PAudio BM-D750 clone. Curious how it sounds. $82.
I've been following your thread on the Klipsch forum for a couple of years. Been searching for a cheaper way to build a K-402 clone. I particularly like your thread "Subconscious Auditory Effects of Quasi-Linear Phase Loudspeakers".
I was in a band that used 2 LaScalas a side, have built Heresy clones, have heard the corner horns and something that very few have done - built several Berthas with the Levan extensions for a customer. Talk about massive overkill. But, he wanted that analog New York club sound. I've loved the sound of horns for oh, at least 35 years.
Anyway, I would want to use something that crosses ~100hz that I could use with a Skram subwoofer (Josh Ricci). The Skram sounds really nice and has that clean horn sound.
Also, ZXPC on Ebay has a PAudio BM-D750 clone. Curious how it sounds. $82.
Hi Cask05 - I think I’ve read through all of the threads you’ve posted here and on the klipsch forum. I’m curious to know if there’s been an effort to make a passive crossover for this configuration. It seems that If there’s a good design out there, it would make a significant reduction in the overall expense.
Hey. I know this thread is not as active. I hope that Chris will make the kit available for all the folks.
I have a question, though. I live in Russia and with Ruble to USD conversion rate, plus custom taxes and shipping, I doubt I will be able to afford the kit in any near future. So I was thinking about making my own 90x60 MEH with a help of bwalso's spreadsheet.
It's been measured that K-402 MEH speaker is able to control directivity down to 100hz. The question is - if I make a 90x60 double flare horn of comparable size (HxDxW), is it plausible to expect same directivity control?
It is gonna be a 2-way design with double 15" woofers and a 2" compression driver. A lot of of good components were mentioned here, so I will pick one of those. Speakers will be placed in the corners of a 50 sq/m room and the form of the speaker will accommodate corner placement.
I really want to experience horn midbass sound. If concept of a MEH described above is not a good way to above this, I will seek other ways. Probably will go DIY LaScalla route or similar.
Sorry if it is a bit off topic.
I have a question, though. I live in Russia and with Ruble to USD conversion rate, plus custom taxes and shipping, I doubt I will be able to afford the kit in any near future. So I was thinking about making my own 90x60 MEH with a help of bwalso's spreadsheet.
It's been measured that K-402 MEH speaker is able to control directivity down to 100hz. The question is - if I make a 90x60 double flare horn of comparable size (HxDxW), is it plausible to expect same directivity control?
It is gonna be a 2-way design with double 15" woofers and a 2" compression driver. A lot of of good components were mentioned here, so I will pick one of those. Speakers will be placed in the corners of a 50 sq/m room and the form of the speaker will accommodate corner placement.
I really want to experience horn midbass sound. If concept of a MEH described above is not a good way to above this, I will seek other ways. Probably will go DIY LaScalla route or similar.
Sorry if it is a bit off topic.
"The question is - if I make a 90x60 double flare horn of comparable size (HxDxW), is it plausible to expect same directivity control?"
My understanding is:
The low frequency properties do not care about minor changes in layout. Any horn of similar size and angle will sound alike at 100Hz.
Small changes in angle or throat shape have a measurable effect on HF sound, as seen on some of the "horn shootout" and diffraction discussions, like this one:
Audio Asylum Thread Printer
"Speakers will be placed in the corners of a 50 sq/m room and the form of the speaker will accommodate corner placement."
That sounds nice. If possible, I'd soffit mount them, like this:
William Cowan's Homepage
See the "Unity, the Finale" link.
I've linked to his site a few times recently, because I think he makes good decisions.
My understanding is:
The low frequency properties do not care about minor changes in layout. Any horn of similar size and angle will sound alike at 100Hz.
Small changes in angle or throat shape have a measurable effect on HF sound, as seen on some of the "horn shootout" and diffraction discussions, like this one:
Audio Asylum Thread Printer
"Speakers will be placed in the corners of a 50 sq/m room and the form of the speaker will accommodate corner placement."
That sounds nice. If possible, I'd soffit mount them, like this:
William Cowan's Homepage
See the "Unity, the Finale" link.
I've linked to his site a few times recently, because I think he makes good decisions.