Those awful 5 way & 6 way speakers are all anybody sells in this flyover town. There are a pair buzzing & hishing away down in front of Rental Access center 2 blocks from my house in good weather. Usually playing hip-hop which you can't tell what it was supposed to sound like, anyway. Last time I checked JBL, the consumer division had a line of 5 ways. No tolerance limit on the quoted frequency response. Could be +-30 db like Radio Shack "production tolerance" used to be. The JBL speakers from their professional division have +-3db frequency specifications. JBL professional speakers are not sold in this tiny town of only 2 million population.
The Music store 1 mile away only has 1 driver speakers for guitars/basses. Again, unsuitable for voice keyboard or orchestra.
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Those Advents were very cool in the day. But by modern standards, they're antiquated. You'll never get bass extension, and you'll never play them at a realistic sound pressure level. Woofers with 1 mm of xmax just can't deliver.
Those big tower speakers from back in the day were terrible and it's no surprise. 10" woofers are stretched to 3 kHz. That violates the basic of basic guidelines right there. They were classic "boom and tweet" speakers ("party speakers") and sound like a bad echo. Plus those cheap woofers stretched to 3 kHz have awful midrange resonances, which the design engineers ignored. Try to listen to the lyrics through one of those speakers. You'll never understand a word. It sounds like the vocalist is singing into a large industrial fan. Try to listen to classical music. Lead instruments (like a violin) sound muffled, like they're hiding behind the couch playing the violin. But a rock guitar riff sounds stunning with all that midrange peakiness! NOT hi fi.
This is why commercial built speakers will never come close to home built. It's all snake oil and hype. People are absolutely stunned when they hear my modest 8" two ways. It's because instead of just throwing them together, I sorted the nasties. Consumer grade speakers just aren't sorted. Many of them should have never been designed in the first place, but consumers are stupid and there's money to be made.
Those big tower speakers from back in the day were terrible and it's no surprise. 10" woofers are stretched to 3 kHz. That violates the basic of basic guidelines right there. They were classic "boom and tweet" speakers ("party speakers") and sound like a bad echo. Plus those cheap woofers stretched to 3 kHz have awful midrange resonances, which the design engineers ignored. Try to listen to the lyrics through one of those speakers. You'll never understand a word. It sounds like the vocalist is singing into a large industrial fan. Try to listen to classical music. Lead instruments (like a violin) sound muffled, like they're hiding behind the couch playing the violin. But a rock guitar riff sounds stunning with all that midrange peakiness! NOT hi fi.
This is why commercial built speakers will never come close to home built. It's all snake oil and hype. People are absolutely stunned when they hear my modest 8" two ways. It's because instead of just throwing them together, I sorted the nasties. Consumer grade speakers just aren't sorted. Many of them should have never been designed in the first place, but consumers are stupid and there's money to be made.
Modern standards aside, I was happy with the Advent Smalls for years and years, up until the woofer surrounds rotted out.
Clean, healthy bass, clear mids and highs - certainly no listening fatigue ever.
A guy I know replaced the surrounds on a pristine pair of Smalls, and when I heard them (again) I was blown away.
I've now got a pair of 1980's-era Maestros (3-way) that closely mimic the original sound I enjoyed, but added a cycolac horn tweeter to the rear for some added ambience bouncing off the wall behind them.
The original on these woofers rotted too, and now have a pro type 10" installed that hits a lower bottem end - quite satisfying.
This is why commercial built speakers will never come close to home built. It's all snake oil and hype.
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Folks over at Audiogon will have none of your true wisdom on this matter
Commercial speakers are consumer speakers,, Agree the old Advents/Acoustic Research #'s , Philips 476 3 ways, maybe 1 other,, offered some pretty good sound.
To this day there are fans ofa few vintage, they like to stack them
Great sound for that era.
But now we have 21st Century FR high end avaliable.
There are no vinatge nor modern xover /low sens speakers that can compete witha a WAW,
Woofer high end FR ad high end tweeter.
This is the design for the 21st Century descerning audiophile.
I can finf issues with every speaker design, horns, ESL.s panels, xover/low sens types.
AS for a higher end FR WAW, its a win-win-win across the spectrum.
No weaknesses, faults, handicaps.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Folks over at Audiogon will have none of your true wisdom on this matter
Commercial speakers are consumer speakers,, Agree the old Advents/Acoustic Research #'s , Philips 476 3 ways, maybe 1 other,, offered some pretty good sound.
To this day there are fans ofa few vintage, they like to stack them
Great sound for that era.
But now we have 21st Century FR high end avaliable.
There are no vinatge nor modern xover /low sens speakers that can compete witha a WAW,
Woofer high end FR ad high end tweeter.
This is the design for the 21st Century descerning audiophile.
I can finf issues with every speaker design, horns, ESL.s panels, xover/low sens types.
AS for a higher end FR WAW, its a win-win-win across the spectrum.
No weaknesses, faults, handicaps.
Who cares? A'gon has been a cesspit of subjectivist rubbish for many years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~That should be doable without a lot of fuss.
Time to do it.
You know what PT Barnum said.
Or maybe the crossover wasn't sorted. Did you miss where people here have sorted crossovers with good results? OEMs almost never do this.
What mechanism do you think prevents full ranges from having this phenomenon? I'll give you a hint: none.
I don't think you've listened to too many speakers. My home built speakers don't do this at all.
All you've done is flap your gums. Start building.
haha
Great post..
OK so you ae willing to hear me out,, Yeah I am kinda of green
I want to ck out your 2 ways.
I;ll go to your page after posting...
btw what did PT Barnum say?
Super Thor,, hardly a nunace. Bass did have more pucnh though.
Agree, Its nota site for ALL things Audio,,, only what sells, consumer/commercial speakers. All tash. Sinus Faber 2 way witha 6 ScanSpeak woofer $16,000.00.
Wilson towers from $20K to $950K.
Just ridiculous snakeoil
ZU, Tekton are the new hot topic, both trash highly distorted boxes of poop.
"No man ever went broke overestimating the ignorance of the American public."
"Many people are gullible, and we can expect this to continue."
"You can fool most of the people most of the time."
"There is a fool born every minute"
"The common man, no matter how sharp and tough, actually enjoys having the wool pulled over his eyes, and makes it easier for the puller."
"But however mysterious is nature , however ignorant the doctor, however imperfect the present state of physical science , the patronage and the success of quacks and quackeries are infinitely more wonderful than those of honest and laborious men of science and their careful experiments."
The first time I visited that site, and the few times I visited later, I had to shake my head and laugh at the plethora of nonsense spewed there.
Nothing but "high end" BS.