Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st March 2015, 04:28 PM   #41
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Hi John,

Glad they're working out. These were designed for a pretty specific application, and what you're hearing matches that:

- restricted low frequencies: These are meant for bedroom use and evening listening without keeping the family awake. I mate them with a sub that I turn off at night. Best to set the sub low pass so its 6 db down at 70Hz.
- on wall mounting. They sound good out in room but won't "boom" against a wall. Most other designs with this driver are ported but won't work against a wall
- really small footprint. This is the smallest W4-1720 design out there that I've found
- tonally neutral voicing as you found. To make this hold up in a small lively room (its intended application at my place):
- I chose a tweeter that was very directional so that in a small reflective room, it doesn't result in high frequency splatter and image wander. Seems to have paid off
- I purposely didn't optimize it for flat on any one axis, but I voiced it for tonal neutrality in a small lively room.

One thing I didn't expect out of this was how revealing it is of source changes upstream: what you feed it is what you get. I think this is an artifact of the low distortion tweeter, and the woofer was much better in this area than I thought it would be. So if you feed it bad sources, it'll give you that back. However, its not overly bright, "crisp" or lower treble bloomy like allot of overly "analytical" (ya, right) metal driver systems are. Far from it, its never strident. If I think it has any fault, its overly "dry" which I think is due to the tight dispersion. I also think the real sense of detail (not hyped, no tilted top end or mid here) is because it doesn't throw as much sound into the room at higher frequencies

Dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2015, 01:29 AM   #42
brookhart995 is offline brookhart995  United States
diyAudio Member
 
brookhart995's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richardson, TX
Thinking about building a pair of these as I already have a pair of the TB woofers. Any idea what tweeter can be used as the Vifa D26nc55 has been discontinued? Any help would be appreciated.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2015, 02:45 AM   #43
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Default Design Improvement

Hi All,

I made a design improvement to the Napoleons that I think is worth sharing. The crossover was revised to add more BDC, reduce the woofer break up a further 5 dB, reduce upper mid range and lower treble by 1 to 2 dB and provide a better balance between on and off axis. In my system, the result is a more open and relaxed sound that I think is a solid improvement. This is the configuration that I prefer.

Update is attached.

Dave
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Napoleons_V3_Part2of2.pdf (837.8 KB, 122 views)
File Type: pdf Napoleons_V3_Part1of2.pdf (945.1 KB, 112 views)

Last edited by DDF; 22nd May 2015 at 02:49 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2016, 04:40 PM   #44
ronu9400 is offline ronu9400  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa valley, Ontario
The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weight
Thanks for mentioning (at yesterday's Ottawa DIY get-together) that you'd published/updated your other x-over versions. I hadn't subscribed to this or any thread, so I probably need to change my ways. My old computer was on its "death-bed" for a while, so I guess I minimized my reliance on it.

As we discussed, my pair (when built) will probably not go in a small room... so I should probably try #1 first, since I have those parts, & maybe see about trying #3 in future.

Thanks a lot (again), Dave.

- Ron
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th April 2016, 02:16 AM   #45
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronu9400 View Post
Thanks for mentioning (at yesterday's Ottawa DIY get-together) that you'd published/updated your other x-over versions. I hadn't subscribed to this or any thread, so I probably need to change my ways. My old computer was on its "death-bed" for a while, so I guess I minimized my reliance on it.

As we discussed, my pair (when built) will probably not go in a small room... so I should probably try #1 first, since I have those parts, & maybe see about trying #3 in future.

Thanks a lot (again), Dave.

- Ron
Hi Ron,

I agree when used in a bigger room to not roll the top end off too much. OTOH, the design I brought to the DIY had a variable tweeter pad I just forgot about given we were in a bit of a time crunch. It would have been interesting to tip the high end back up a bit and give a listen.

Hope you enjoy it!

Dave
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 02:17 AM   #46
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Hi Folks,
This is a long time coming but I've refined the crossover and I think anyone working with the W4-1720 would be interested in this. I'm posting the design as a 3 parter to attachments. This speaker is finally DONE
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Napoleons_V4 - Part1.pdf (680.5 KB, 139 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 02:18 AM   #47
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Part 2
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Napoleons_V4 - Part2.pdf (756.6 KB, 86 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th January 2018, 02:18 AM   #48
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Part 3
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Napoleons_V4 - Part3.pdf (649.3 KB, 135 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th July 2018, 05:49 PM   #49
pliedtka is offline pliedtka  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
pliedtka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ottawa
Send a message via MSN to pliedtka
Dave, which versions of Napoleons did we listen last time, during DIY meeting. It was a bit brighter, with higher X-O point, and Mark's comment was much cleaner. But of the two versions, you said, the less bright, imaged better. Just fighting with some cheap SBs - no enclosures yet.
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st July 2018, 04:20 PM   #50
DDF is offline DDF  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
DDF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ottawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by pliedtka View Post
Dave, which versions of Napoleons did we listen last time, during DIY meeting. It was a bit brighter, with higher X-O point, and Mark's comment was much cleaner. But of the two versions, you said, the less bright, imaged better. Just fighting with some cheap SBs - no enclosures yet.
I remember John's pair was played first. They were the very first version and had the lower xover point and a very flat on axis response (Appendix I xover; they were the first draft and played at the DIY event a few years ago as my first listen as well). The second speakers played were the last version of the xover and my daily pair: higher xover, double trap on woofer to allow the higher xover, great off axis and a slight tip up on axis that results in much better off axis response (if anything I usually tip on axis down slightly but this tweeter is very directional in the very top end). I listen 15 degree off axis. At low power either is OK but the second pair takes significant power without complaint, so I agree with Mark (did I just say that in public?)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


The Napoleons: a Compact 2 Way that punches above its weightHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Larger chassis Hole Punches rick57 Tubes / Valves 36 10th July 2006 08:31 AM
Buffalo Ironworker punches & dies mobyd Parts 0 10th May 2006 11:25 AM
Advice on Greenlee Punches Requested SRMcGee Parts 2 15th November 2005 12:37 AM
Handmade Electronics Metal Punches? was ist los? Tubes / Valves 0 22nd September 2004 02:54 AM
A weight vs. linear weight gary f Multi-Way 1 2nd April 2004 01:23 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2020 diyAudio
Wiki