My sister-in-law did fundraising for the Cleveland Orchestra. Orchestras are all having a hard time meeting expenses. Player sallaries are big and growing in spite of the recession. Costs are high, from travel costs to instrument costs. Ticket sales don't cover more than a fraction of the cost. Big donors are required.
I like (generally prefer) classical music and especially piano, but I've never bought in to the idea that "only classical music justifys true high fidelity". I do think it is the bigger challenge for reproduction.
There are probably many more classical music lovers amongst the audiophile ranks than in the general population. (Jazz would be a close second.)
A good system should make all types of music sound better.
David
I like (generally prefer) classical music and especially piano, but I've never bought in to the idea that "only classical music justifys true high fidelity". I do think it is the bigger challenge for reproduction.
There are probably many more classical music lovers amongst the audiophile ranks than in the general population. (Jazz would be a close second.)
A good system should make all types of music sound better.
David
I think it's always been like this.
The only ones that seem to "buck" this trend are the more recent (relatively speaking) "in-house" types, that don't play live. Ex. Movie Studio Orchestras.
I am definately in agreement, a great speaker should not be genre dependent.
Orchestras have always struggled, always relied on sponsors, recession will hit them hard, like all the Arts, nothing new there.
The likes of Classic FM has actually made Classical more accessible to the masses and in some ways more popular than ever.
Most people I meet seem to be struggling today. Of course there are some exceptions.
It's because everyone who proposed methods to achieve that in home environment have been split to another thread by our friendly moderator, those methods being too unconventional to fit in a standard thread
- Elias
The Detroit Orchestra is having a very bad time. Ann Arbor never has a problem because they have a big School of Music - very prolific.
Music is seeing the same problems with globalization. Great Chinese musicians are in abundance and don't expect nearly as much compensation.
I think that it is tough to determine where the listening habits are now because the distribution channels have changed so much.
I like Classical Music in big halls, as I said, but it shouldn't be the standard.
Music is seeing the same problems with globalization. Great Chinese musicians are in abundance and don't expect nearly as much compensation.
I think that it is tough to determine where the listening habits are now because the distribution channels have changed so much.
I like Classical Music in big halls, as I said, but it shouldn't be the standard.
Aren't they using mics, amplification and loudspeakers for the vocalist at the clubs ? Then what you perceive is not imaging of the vocalist but localisation of the PA speakers ! How this should ever be the goal of home reproduction, to localise the (crappy) PA speakers ?
- Elias
I'll make a (half hearted) argument for it.
I think it is the greater challenge, so if we can achieve convincing reproduction of classical music then we've relly achieved something.
In the whole "they are here vs. you are there" notion, the easiest "they are here" that I can imagine is a small jazz combo in the living room. You could probably squeeze one into your living room and a fairly dead recording can naturally take on the acoustics of your living room and sound okay.
For the orchestra you have to pull the largest group possible and the most alien acoustic space into your living room. This makes it a great challenge.
A 2nd big factor is the reproduction of natural unamplified instruments. A piano, a violin, the human voice, all have a very particular and nuanced sound. An electric guitar sounds much like what the amplifier does to it. Not that it isn't without nuance, but there is no absolute reference. Yes, pop music can have natural elements: voice, drums, it just tends to be farther removed from a live event.
It is also harder to find worthy pop recordings. It is even becoming hard to find pop recordings without heavy compression and constant clipping. (Loudness wars, give them 96dB dynamic range and they only want to use the last 6!) Run a hip hop artist through autotune and call the results natural?
I don't even buy into the "accuracy equals an exact reproduction of the studio recording session, creating what the mix engineer heard". He was in a studio listening over speakers designed more for survival at 120dB than for accurate reproduction of the microphone feeds. There is nothing sacred about the sound achieved at the recording session.
There is a lot of tradition in classical music and its reproduction. People who love classical music tend to be very serious about sound quality and have disproportionately supported our industry over the decades. Again, I'm not a snob about what kind of music you may like and whether it warrants hi fi or not. I just think that convincing reproduction of classical instruments and a large space is the greater challenge for hi fi.
David S.
like, duh...
This point seems continually lost even on the cognoscenti here, as they rush headlong into the superiority space of their own agenda, whatever that may be.
me? I find some recorrdings to be esoterically pleasing, whatever the venue, many not so much. Occasionally, I'll, for lack of a better term, experience a "jump factor" while listening, as, for whatever reason, it seems as if the recording artist(s) are seated in the 3D space of my listening area, and the reproduction chain seems to have completely disappeared. Happens more often on HT than audio, and not nearly often enough, but I've always found the quality of the recording to far outweigh any issues about the physical setup of the equipment with any half decent system.
John L.
This point seems continually lost even on the cognoscenti here, as they rush headlong into the superiority space of their own agenda, whatever that may be.
me? I find some recorrdings to be esoterically pleasing, whatever the venue, many not so much. Occasionally, I'll, for lack of a better term, experience a "jump factor" while listening, as, for whatever reason, it seems as if the recording artist(s) are seated in the 3D space of my listening area, and the reproduction chain seems to have completely disappeared. Happens more often on HT than audio, and not nearly often enough, but I've always found the quality of the recording to far outweigh any issues about the physical setup of the equipment with any half decent system.
John L.
Simple two mic binaural recording provides the best reference. When more complicated recording methods are used, it may sound preferable on less quality systems. So the industry seems to do what will sell best.
Very true. If the magic's not in the recording, you can't reproduce it. Even then, you're still stuck with the limitations of stereo.
now post a photo of Your system
Well, my avatar is the middle 10 inches of its over 6 foot of height.
David S.
Your point being that unconventional systems become the bottleneck (instead of the recording) in the search for better sound? I suppose, then, that's why we use conventional speakers instead of unconventional...
Shrug. With my conventional system I have it all the time.
Yes, it is. And it's nice to see someone argue that.
I've owned and heard a lot of systems that do very well on country, pop, rock, small jazz or chamber music. But try a big orchestra or worse, orchestra with choir, and they fall apart. It's very hard to do - as Lynn Olsen keeps telling us.I've also played "large recordings" thru big PA systems. Big enough to have the dynamics and range needed - in theory. The almost never sound great.
Agreed. But it may well be beyond the capabilities of two channel. Making it the "standard" may force compromises on the "other" genres that don't really have all that much benefit to the classical genre because its just not possible to do.
I've been meaning to ask if there is an exception recording of say something by Stravinsky. I keep buy Classical CDs and they keep disappointing me that they are so badly recorded.
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