HI
Basically browsing the Geneva labs ipod dock site(as I am thinking of building a dock) and was wondering what you guys think of the science behind putting the drivers right next to each other. As in below. How does this sound compared to other 'highly rated' docks like the B&W Zeppelin which places the drivers wide as possible apart. The Geneva's also has a little piece that protrudes slightly in between the two drivers.
I am asking this as I always read that drivers should be placed about 1.5m apart to create the stero image, but Geneva do this to remove the sweetspot. Will these have any electronic processes to sort the sound out, and could I recreate the whole zero sweet spot by placing any drivers of my choice this close together?
Thanks
Joe
Basically browsing the Geneva labs ipod dock site(as I am thinking of building a dock) and was wondering what you guys think of the science behind putting the drivers right next to each other. As in below. How does this sound compared to other 'highly rated' docks like the B&W Zeppelin which places the drivers wide as possible apart. The Geneva's also has a little piece that protrudes slightly in between the two drivers.
I am asking this as I always read that drivers should be placed about 1.5m apart to create the stero image, but Geneva do this to remove the sweetspot. Will these have any electronic processes to sort the sound out, and could I recreate the whole zero sweet spot by placing any drivers of my choice this close together?
Thanks
Joe
Attachments
Yeah watch the video on this page and they describe what they mean.
I have been thinking why not have a mono setup, and you could still go further with their philosophy and get one very good co-axial driver if you wanted to get the sound(image) totally in one place, excuse my basic science. How would a mono setup sound exactly anyway?
I have been thinking why not have a mono setup, and you could still go further with their philosophy and get one very good co-axial driver if you wanted to get the sound(image) totally in one place, excuse my basic science. How would a mono setup sound exactly anyway?
It uses 'Embracing Sound' TM
The Geneva dock uses the Embracing Sound process (google to find the company producing the proprietry hardware) which gives stereo from closely positioned speakers. I think the TNT Audio website reviewed this Geneva Labs product a while ago - might be worth trying to find that for an opinion. There is at least another serious speaker which uses it - the Owl monitor from German company EMES.
Ian
The Geneva dock uses the Embracing Sound process (google to find the company producing the proprietry hardware) which gives stereo from closely positioned speakers. I think the TNT Audio website reviewed this Geneva Labs product a while ago - might be worth trying to find that for an opinion. There is at least another serious speaker which uses it - the Owl monitor from German company EMES.
Ian
Hi
Thanks for that I thought there might be some software trickery somewhere involved and the Owl also has that little raised bit between the drivers, obviously an important piece then. I'll have a read of them a bit later when I've got a bit more time on my hands.
So in response what would say a good mono set up actually sound like? Obviously you wood lose the awareness of where the instruments are coming from, but if you never on-axis and always moving around would you notice anyway?
Thanks for that I thought there might be some software trickery somewhere involved and the Owl also has that little raised bit between the drivers, obviously an important piece then. I'll have a read of them a bit later when I've got a bit more time on my hands.
So in response what would say a good mono set up actually sound like? Obviously you wood lose the awareness of where the instruments are coming from, but if you never on-axis and always moving around would you notice anyway?
a good mono set up can sound a bit "dense" at times on modern recordings with lots of stereo. That being said most people don't notice untill they are in front of it and listen to a piece they know quite well.
interesting fact if you listen to something you know quite well, like a common tune or popular song your brain can throw in some of the stereo effect.
the majority of live concerts you will see will be 90% mono! it makes it easier to get the levels right for all the listeners rather than have a sweet spot.
and yet nobody notices! they hear stereo!
interesting fact if you listen to something you know quite well, like a common tune or popular song your brain can throw in some of the stereo effect.
the majority of live concerts you will see will be 90% mono! it makes it easier to get the levels right for all the listeners rather than have a sweet spot.
and yet nobody notices! they hear stereo!
You can find a description and a little diagram of how the Owl works in this review:
Mix guides monitors emes owl Field Test-Mix reviews the emes owl speaker system in mix guides monitors
Doesn't seem to involve software (ie anything digital).
Mix guides monitors emes owl Field Test-Mix reviews the emes owl speaker system in mix guides monitors
Doesn't seem to involve software (ie anything digital).
This is audio - what's science got to do with it? Its easier to make, smaller, all marketing advantages, not acoustical ones.
Gedlee: I get where you are coming from with marketing advantages and 'normal' people not knowing the differences their hearing maybe, I was just referring to the practice of two drivers together and the stereo image they wouldn't be able to create, but thats before I realized there was electronic trickery going on.
Charles: reading through it, the article does refer to it using that Embracing Sound tech.
Insertname: That is something to think about. When you say 'dense' and at the risk of me sounding dense are you referring to the sound not being as open and slightly too bass heavy? If this what you mean, then maybe a smaller fullrange driver( as they lack the lower frequencies anyway) and a smaller subwoofer(say a 'fake' Tang band 6.5" with its volume slightly reduced) could get round this. (If this is a load of tosh, just say as I'm just trying to learn)
Charles: reading through it, the article does refer to it using that Embracing Sound tech.
Insertname: That is something to think about. When you say 'dense' and at the risk of me sounding dense are you referring to the sound not being as open and slightly too bass heavy? If this what you mean, then maybe a smaller fullrange driver( as they lack the lower frequencies anyway) and a smaller subwoofer(say a 'fake' Tang band 6.5" with its volume slightly reduced) could get round this. (If this is a load of tosh, just say as I'm just trying to learn)
Cal: I forgot to include this in my last post as I didn't want to come across as 'thick' as I didn't know whether it was possible. But yes I was thinking about this but not as much splay as that. Because surely you would have a much 'wider angle of sound' if you. I too would be interested to hear.
If you are going to have the drivers so close together (cross talk cancelling application not withstanding) then splaying them out would help. But having them seperated and crossed in front of the listener is always going to sound better I think. Size, etc. not being considerations of course. If a single box is all you have then what you show makes some sense.
Thanks. The overall idea was to build some time in the future a simple ipod hifi along the lines of stuff like the Geneva Labs. Therefore I would ideally liked to have one box as it would just sit in the kitchen for everyone to use. The drivers could be separated but this would only be about 30cm or so and I was just looking to see if there were any different/ better ways of mounting the in such a small frontal area.
When I get round to doing it I think i will experiment with different set ups, ie; a mono, normal (seperated as much as possible), close together and splayed. Just so I can listen for myself and try it out and learn.
When I get round to doing it I think i will experiment with different set ups, ie; a mono, normal (seperated as much as possible), close together and splayed. Just so I can listen for myself and try it out and learn.
I agree, but there are rooms where it just won't happen... ever...
A good big stereo pair is the best, but in complicated or just inappropriate acoustic environment stereo pairs just don't work image wise.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Why not have stereo in your kitchen or garage? - Just point the speaker to the ordinary working position and have all that stereo sound.
That idea is pretty appealing to me.
I think Dr. Geddes post talks about non-compromising audio solutions. The design is a compromise in that respect but like you said their are applications that require it.
Its good to know what the compromise is, we can just accept it and move on
btw, I always loved that Ferrari speakers picture
Its good to know what the compromise is, we can just accept it and move on
btw, I always loved that Ferrari speakers picture
talking about non-compromising audio solutions?
there are things better than this and better than any conventional forward firing speakers in 60 degrees stereo triangle setup
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/10962-stereolith-loudspeakers-question.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/121385-loudspeakers-room-system.html
With them Stereolith speakers, one image shows it facing the same way as the sofa. Therefore one driver facing a wall and one the sofa, and what happens if you put it on the kitchen worktop or in a corner of a room, the only place it maybe available to go. Surely each time your 'blocking off' one of the channels ? I like the idea but would it not be very position critical to where it goes as it couldn't go near confined spaces, saying that I've never heard one. Plus for a iPod dock and similar minimal, easy going speakers this be against what its meant for.
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