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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

P13 or SEAS Prestige MCA15RCY
P13 or SEAS Prestige MCA15RCY
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Old 17th December 2009, 11:47 AM   #1
K-amps is offline K-amps  United States
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Default P13 or SEAS Prestige MCA15RCY

Can you guys suggest an alternative for the P13?

I am currently using it as a mid from 400Hz to 4kHz. I got it because I wanted warmer mids... which i got. Now I have heard other branded speakers... I feel the P13 is not very "revealing"...

I would like to budget from $50 to $150/pr for a 5" to 5.5" replacement... with a smooth FR and no break up modes that I need to deal with..

Research has uncovered the SEAS Prestige MCA15RCY, has anyone heard it or better yet, compared it to the P13?

Oh yes another reason I want to change the P13 is I cannot get a rock solid center image with them... I can with $10 mids if I have lying around but not with the P13's... I suspect the P13's I have may not be matched or worse not made to tight specs.. Is this possible...?

Thanks!

Last edited by K-amps; 17th December 2009 at 11:49 AM. Reason: spellings
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Old 17th December 2009, 12:29 PM   #2
K-amps is offline K-amps  United States
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I got 3 more lower priced options I can consider..

Peerless Exclusive 831882 - 5.75" ($116 / pr)
JM Lab 5.25 PL - ( $40/ pr).... Is this an older model?
Dayton Ref (RS125S8) 5" - ($60 / pr)
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Old 17th December 2009, 12:52 PM   #3
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
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P13 or SEAS Prestige MCA15RCY
The Dayton is metal, will be revealing but you have to deal with strong break up node. I do not think metal cone speakers are suitable for a midrange as to avoid the cone resonanse even with the Excels, you have to cut them low and steep.
The Peerless HDS uses nomex whose sound I do not like and they have large voice coil inductance value, which speaks about a bigger coil.
I do not expect the Seas coated cone to provide much better resolution, coated drivers have better damping properties and sound soft and unrevealing. What you hear is the sound of the coating, not the paper itself.
I know some paper drivers may sound harsh, but uncoated paper cone should be my choice If I am you. It will be a total gamble, but you may try the new NE123W-04 - Vifa 4" woofer - EUROPE AUDIO I do not know If anyone has tested these, but they look very good for this price. Of course, this is not a warranty that they will sound good, but you may give them a shot. unlike any other driver at this price point they offer neodymium multibar magnet system, opened cast frame, perforated voice coil former which should eliminate internal coil former resonanses and compression and uncoated paper/wood pulp cones. The dust cap is small and the vc inductance is very low which talks about a small and very light coil. On paper, this should be a great sounding driver but until i have heard it...
Other good contestor is the Tangband W4 - this is a very good sounding speaker for this price and may be cut at 9-10Khz which will allow you to use a cheap tweeter. The SB acoustics drivers also look interesting but I have no experience with them.

Last edited by Mario Pankov; 17th December 2009 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 17th December 2009, 02:18 PM   #4
Michael Chua is offline Michael Chua  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by K-amps
I am currently using it as a mid from 400Hz to 4kHz. I got it because I wanted warmer mids... which i got. Now I have heard other branded speakers... I feel the P13 is not very "revealing"...
I don't think its the P13. Have you tried crossing lower at 2K5. I use Seas 27TDFC, Vifa D25AG35 and PL27TG35 for 2K5 (HP at 18dB). Avoid the older Vifas because they require a LCR to tame the resonance peak. Apart from that, they are as good as the newer 27TDFC.

If you prefer to change your P13, consider the HiVi M5a and Zaph ZA14. They are excellent drivers. My ZA14 is paired with a Vifa XT25 whereas the M5a is with a D25AG35.
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Old 17th December 2009, 07:10 PM   #5
K-amps is offline K-amps  United States
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Thank you all for your thoughts…
*
Based on those and other research, I have decided to try 2 mids. (A third one thrown in only because it was rather cheap at $10.80 a pop).
*
1)***** TB W5-1685 ($45.86) – Large underhung motor, low distortion.
2)***** Zaph ZA14 ($39.80) – Low dist, Zaph’s name, looks pretty… but gotta roll it off steeper .
3)***** *Dahlquist W5-KA538A – Good name (even if it is not the same Dahlquist).. and what do I lose for $10.80?
*
I will test and report back once these ship out and have replaced my P13’s.
*
Thanks!
K-amps
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Old 17th December 2009, 07:13 PM   #6
K-amps is offline K-amps  United States
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Oh yes, my first choice vifa 5" NE's were sold out at PE & Madisound.
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Old 17th December 2009, 08:01 PM   #7
Mario Pankov is offline Mario Pankov  Europe
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P13 or SEAS Prestige MCA15RCY
The Tangband W4 is a better choice for the freq. range you look at ( If you want to stick with TB ). It will be more transparent than the larger one, has a phase plug and will allow you to cut it high.
If you decide to try the Vifa NE line, please keep me posted on this.
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Old 19th December 2009, 02:34 PM   #8
K-amps is offline K-amps  United States
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Update:

The TB W5-1685 were delivered... as a first test I did a rudimentary listening test of the P13, the Dahlquist W5 and the TB W5. The Dahlquish sounded the worst, strained and glared at 500Hz to 2000Hz (or is it beamy?).. Followed by the P13, very similar in sonic signature to the Dahlquist, but not so strained, and soaks up much more power before sounding distorted. But even feeding it a non full spectrum signal, the sound in the 800-1800Hz range is overpowering... makes me turn my head away.

The TB was a completely different ball game. The details and balanced sound free of glare was eye-popping. I then proceeded to handicap the TB by inserting a 0.3mH in series to cut out the extra HF it had vs the other 2 andlevel the playing field a little, it still sounded better, open clearer , detailed and less fatiguing. There is less warmth compared to the P13 and also less sensitivity, but so far I am enjoying it very much. Even though I am not using it as a bass driver, it just delivers much more LF than the P13 or the Dahlquist... it seems to be a much more superior product. Much more faithful to the signal than the other 2... only issue is the lessor sensitivity... mean I will have to pad the tweeters down a bit.

The Zapg ZA14's will be delivered later today and then I will compare them again...

Last edited by K-amps; 19th December 2009 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 20th December 2009, 02:34 AM   #9
K-amps is offline K-amps  United States
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Got the ZAPH ZA14's... very nice indeed. Both the TB W5 and the ZA14's blow the Vifa P13 on details and realism.

Now the tough choice between the TB and the Za.... this will take time!
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Old 20th December 2009, 06:51 AM   #10
Norcad is offline Norcad  Norway
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I've used the MCA15RCY in several construction, and its very easy to deal with. But they dont sound good crossed higher than 3khz.
I also think they sound better with a bigger enclosure, or at least deaper enclosure because of standing waves reflects back through the paper cone.
My last discover was that they liked to be ported, why I dont know for sure.

(just in case someone read this post and likes to know)
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