Yes indeed, not really a pair. Not as far apart as my 8” variation.
The average of the 2 drivers will fit into an existing box. Quite large, it was done for TAD 15”.
Before proceeding with this i would want to check out each driver separatly to see if a common box would work.
dave
Hi GM,
I try to read your posts whenever there's time (and my head isn't already full of amplifier electronic questions.) One thing I've noticed is that when looking at starting designs, you often refer to N=x alignment , as above.
Looking to understand what you're talking about I search but don't find anything other than N = distortion ratio. No explanation that covers how you are using it.
If this is what you're referring to, then using it as a basic parametric entry to design is interesting to say the least.
I completely get it if you don't want to go all the way back to basics but could you maybe point at a page or book where what you're doing is explained in not purely mathematical terms?
Thanks !
At the time of measurement one driver had been playing for a week on an OB, the other was in storage for quite some time.
Is it possible that accounts for the difference, and after having played the second driver for a similar time, should I re-measure (don't have measuring tools myself but too much of an effort if you think it could make a difference).
@Hearinspace apologies for the semi - hijack of your thread, just thought my questions were so similar it may interest you as well [emoji4]
I'm not GM, but until he can get back, 'N' in Onken terms is basically a mathematical expression of the target alignment for a given driver. The original N = 6.34 gives a Vb and Fb that provide a quasi-EBS style alignment, as he notes. N = 5.7 gives a a Vb and Fb that provide (near enough) the equivalent of a max-flat alignment. You can adjust N independently to keep duct length moderately down -excess length is a perennial problem with Onkens, as the ducts are 1/2 wave resonators and have their own independent modes that can comb with the direct output through the upper midband, which is why Onkens have a reputation for a characteristic 'sound'.
I've only seen it WRT Onken alignments and if I ever knew all its background I've forgotten it beyond it's a factor for calculating cab size: Vb = n*Vas*Qts'^2
I assume there's a chart, but don't recall ever seeing one and all my links are either dead or if in the archives will have to wait since it's offline.
I assume there's a chart, but don't recall ever seeing one and all my links are either dead or if in the archives will have to wait since it's offline.
Greets!
You're welcome!
WRT an actual Onken alignment Vs Dave's acoustically quite different ~ lookalike, the Altec 414Z Petite Onken is the only one I'm aware of and its design details are for now 'lost' in the currently offline archive and will likely need to be re-dimensioned to suit your drivers.
No one has commented on it, but I posted a link on the very first page of the thread to the current Onken calculator which is based on the spreadsheet I used to design my Onkens, but which I probably cannot share due to copyright considerations.
Again it is here: Calculate Onken Bass Relex Loudspeaker
No need to do the laborious calculations by hand and best of all I have confirmed that it gives reasonable results based on the spreadsheet I have and used to design mine 16 years ago.
Sort of frustrating and leaves me wondering why I waste my time here..
I also wonder why this discussion is in fullrange and not multiway, if no one objects I will move it tomorrow.
By 'chart' I meant a listing of all the 'n' numbers and what sort of alignment each was since after many decades still have only seen the two.
Also, for some reason I thought you got your info from me, but don't recall ever telling anyone to keep it a secret.
IIRC the Super 12 is a whizzer cone 'coax' 'FR' driver.............
Also, for some reason I thought you got your info from me, but don't recall ever telling anyone to keep it a secret.
IIRC the Super 12 is a whizzer cone 'coax' 'FR' driver.............
Yes. A simple way of making sure you get the vent size right for the alignment intended even if you don’t know or care what its shape would be.
Infinite n gives you the infinite range that a good modeler provides.
dave
Like it measures
; its modest [mid] bass boost, slight added vent resonances 'color' comes 'shining through' around 1:37 on this video: Onken 360l Altec systems Horn speaker - YouTube
Thanks, .. GM
The clip sounded a bit colored in the bass - and not in a good way (hard to judge from a youtube recording, though) . Hope I'm not mis-judging.
Here's a clip of the same driver in an onken vs another (perhaps reflex) cabinet. Tannoy Gold 15' loudspeakers . Lancaster vs. Onken cabinet. - YouTube
Apologies again, I don't normally judge sound systems via youtube
The clip sounded a bit colored in the bass - and not in a good way (hard to judge from a youtube recording, though) . Hope I'm not mis-judging.
Here's a clip of the same driver in an onken vs another (perhaps reflex) cabinet. Tannoy Gold 15' loudspeakers . Lancaster vs. Onken cabinet. - YouTube
Apologies again, I don't normally judge sound systems via youtube
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You're welcome!
No, you 'nailed' it for when the signal has enough LF gain BW to excite the vent's 1/2 WL resonances to audibly comb filter with the signal's upper harmonics, though I imagine YT/whatever recording system exaggerated it a bit.
Understood and agree, but best we can do, though too often I'm not familiar with the music and just got lucky finding this one quick.
What we really need is this: Superbass - Blue Monk - YouTube
Yours is interesting too in that whatever is playing seems to be limited enough in the bass for what the original Jensen Ultraflex was meant to do, i.e. ~ 'critically' damp the low end Vs a reflex and act as an acoustic high pass TT 'rumble' filter.
No, you 'nailed' it for when the signal has enough LF gain BW to excite the vent's 1/2 WL resonances to audibly comb filter with the signal's upper harmonics, though I imagine YT/whatever recording system exaggerated it a bit.
Understood and agree, but best we can do, though too often I'm not familiar with the music and just got lucky finding this one quick.
What we really need is this: Superbass - Blue Monk - YouTube
Yours is interesting too in that whatever is playing seems to be limited enough in the bass for what the original Jensen Ultraflex was meant to do, i.e. ~ 'critically' damp the low end Vs a reflex and act as an acoustic high pass TT 'rumble' filter.
Hi thereNo one has commented on it, but I posted a link on the very first page of the thread to the current Onken calculator which is based on the spreadsheet I used to design my Onkens, but which I probably cannot share due to copyright considerations.
Again it is here: Calculate Onken Bass Relex Loudspeaker
No need to do the laborious calculations by hand and best of all I have confirmed that it gives reasonable results based on the spreadsheet I have and used to design mine 16 years ago.
Sort of frustrating and leaves me wondering why I waste my time here..
I also wonder why this discussion is in fullrange and not multiway, if no one objects I will move it tomorrow.
I did look at the calculator - would really help if I could figure out how to use the damn thing...
I'm kind of expecting to feed something T/S parameters, and then to get told what volume the enclosure should be. This calc asks me for the port width and height - but not length. Should I just make up width/length and number of ports and see what it spits out?
Doesn't make sense to me...