Hi! I have an oportunity to buy a pair of Alpair 5.3 deivers for a good prize and replace my fountek FE85 in a FAST system with tb w5-1138. Im just wondering if it will be able to be crossed at 200hz or lower when it’s mounted in a sealed enclosure with 1 liter internal volume? If anyone has any thoughts it’s much appriciated!
Typically one would XO these a bit higher (250-400Hz).
The Alpair will, IMO, decidely be a better mid/tweeter than the Fountek.
Sealed looks like closer to 1.7 litres need to get a box Q of 0.707 and an F(-3) of about 133 Hz.
Ideally one would want to cross at least an octave above that, unless you want to use the 2nd order sealed box roll-off as part of the filter.
I personally prefer a midTL for midTweeters, but i am guessing you are trying to reuse an existing sub enclosure? How easy is it to drill some holes into that bix to the outside world?
dave
The Alpair will, IMO, decidely be a better mid/tweeter than the Fountek.
Sealed looks like closer to 1.7 litres need to get a box Q of 0.707 and an F(-3) of about 133 Hz.
Ideally one would want to cross at least an octave above that, unless you want to use the 2nd order sealed box roll-off as part of the filter.
I personally prefer a midTL for midTweeters, but i am guessing you are trying to reuse an existing sub enclosure? How easy is it to drill some holes into that bix to the outside world?
dave
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wow thanks for quick and great replys.
Crossover: I dont know really yet how i will go about exactly but either PLLXO or active, probably not DSP.
BOX: I haven´t built the box yet but like alot of other builders I´m trying to keep size down, but 1,7 liters instead of 1 is not a problem.
Woofer: I have a pair of TB W5-1138 on hand and I was looking at how the isetta was built and tuned with the same woofer. I would like to cross lower though because I would like to sidemount the woofer to keep the fron narrow, purely by aesthetic reasons.
Isetta - undefinition
Crossover: I dont know really yet how i will go about exactly but either PLLXO or active, probably not DSP.
BOX: I haven´t built the box yet but like alot of other builders I´m trying to keep size down, but 1,7 liters instead of 1 is not a problem.
Woofer: I have a pair of TB W5-1138 on hand and I was looking at how the isetta was built and tuned with the same woofer. I would like to cross lower though because I would like to sidemount the woofer to keep the fron narrow, purely by aesthetic reasons.
Isetta - undefinition
We have used side mounted woofers (same size but Silver Flute) and one on each side (better than a larger one on just one side) with a passive XO at 450 Hz.
A midTL is a heavily tapered TL damped until near aperiodic. The idea to try to completely absorb the back wave and have nothing come back theu the cone.
In an integrated box, a tapered slice out the back will usually work (like Tysen).
The isetta looks like a boom box-like speaker. You need at least 2 woofers and 2 enclosures. 4 woofers, if sidemounted is better.
I haven’t simmed that woofer so can offer no suggestions there.
dave
A midTL is a heavily tapered TL damped until near aperiodic. The idea to try to completely absorb the back wave and have nothing come back theu the cone.
In an integrated box, a tapered slice out the back will usually work (like Tysen).
The isetta looks like a boom box-like speaker. You need at least 2 woofers and 2 enclosures. 4 woofers, if sidemounted is better.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I haven’t simmed that woofer so can offer no suggestions there.
dave
I was looking at your Tysen speakers the other day and now I know what i was looking at, a midTL, sounds like a plan!
Well yeah the Isetta is not really what I´m going for but I thought I could use the woofer section of that build. But like you said I´m looking too have two enclosures with one woofer in each (cant afford another pair...).
Why I was thinking about crossing it lower was because of my limited knowledge and that i read that cross it low and it soooort of dont matter where you have the woofer, but if you go higher you want the drivers closer together. But I´ll take your word for it and try a xo point of 450 ish, i might as well try!
I just have to decide if I should go for the Alpair 5 (which I can buy new for half the prize) or stay with the Fountek FE85 or Vifa TC9FD. But if I can go with a slightly larger mid/tweet section of 1,7 liters and cross lowish or maybe even smaller and cross around 450 it would be nice to try the Alpair out a nd for the first time use a mor premium driver. Seems like people like it.
Well yeah the Isetta is not really what I´m going for but I thought I could use the woofer section of that build. But like you said I´m looking too have two enclosures with one woofer in each (cant afford another pair...).
Why I was thinking about crossing it lower was because of my limited knowledge and that i read that cross it low and it soooort of dont matter where you have the woofer, but if you go higher you want the drivers closer together. But I´ll take your word for it and try a xo point of 450 ish, i might as well try!
I just have to decide if I should go for the Alpair 5 (which I can buy new for half the prize) or stay with the Fountek FE85 or Vifa TC9FD. But if I can go with a slightly larger mid/tweet section of 1,7 liters and cross lowish or maybe even smaller and cross around 450 it would be nice to try the Alpair out a nd for the first time use a mor premium driver. Seems like people like it.
Yes, the goal is thta the driver centre-to-centreis less than a 1/4 wavelength at the XO point.
I try to keep drivers as close as i can, in Tysen the spacing is dictated by the needed Zd for the TL. We 1st did a 15 liter trapezoidal miniOnken with as close a spacing as possible. The TL has a near octave extension at the bottom. A compromise we were happy with.
Too bad the SF are hard to find in Europe. A quad from Madisound is less than $90 USD.
dave
The Alpair is in a totally different class than either of these drivers. I have given away 4 TC9s because i found them quite poor, only heard the much pricier Fountek and it does not come near the A5.2/3. If you can get a pair cheap, jump now!!
dave
It can work with that TB woofer, but i would also crossover higher, the 300 to 500Hz band looks a better place to try to crossover it when looking at the fr of both drivers. And use at least a 2nd order to avoid pushing both drivers to far to their limits as it sounds worse.
For crossing over lower, a 5 to 8" FR is mostly better. I crossover my system at 250Hz with a (depending on how you see it) 5.25" or 6" Mark Audio 10M and a 10" scanspeak woofer, but this 3" Alpair 5 is not going low enough to do that.
For crossing over lower, a 5 to 8" FR is mostly better. I crossover my system at 250Hz with a (depending on how you see it) 5.25" or 6" Mark Audio 10M and a 10" scanspeak woofer, but this 3" Alpair 5 is not going low enough to do that.
Thanks for your input. Well it just so happens that I have the same opportunity to buy a pair of Alpair 10.3 instead, I was thinking the 5.3 was a better choice for the upper range but I gueass the 10.3 isnt bad either for mid/tweet duty considering it´s quality. But then I´m worried about keeping the size down, will the 10.3 reach low enough in a small enclousure?
I use mine in a 11.5L sealed enclosure because i like it with low QTC. But you could get away with smaller. For a QTC of 0.707 (what is theoretical the best) this driver need a 6,6L. You could go to 4L sealed but then you are pushing it to high qtc (0.850). Smaller will give a response peak at the bottom end. All will go low genough for a 2nd order at 200Hz, i use mine with a 1st order at 250Hz.
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We have been happy XOing the A5.2/3 at 240-250 Hz 1st order. It all depend on how loud you want to play.
It is all about what compromises are best for you.
Higher XO certainly makes XO parts cheaper, if you are trying to go passive.
dave
As a midTweeter the A5.2/3 is better than the A10.3. It all depends on how loud you want to go.
The only time i have considered an A10 (A10PeN) as midTweter is for a BIG WAW that should be able to play loud. A10x is better suited if you are working on a true 1-way speaker as it can do bass in an appropriate enclosure (~35 Hz). A5.2/3 an octave higher ~70 Hz.
In testing people loved the sound w 180 Hz XO, 250 gave a bit better upperBass.
dave
What Planet10 says is maybe true. My waw is a big one, although i use it with a 32w tube amp which is way less less than it's capable off. My woofer is also a 10" Scanspeak 26W8534G00 in a 77L sealed cabinet which is a lot more powerfull than your 5" woofer. I also need a rather complex crossover to make this work the right way... This is a picture of it just after i finished the definitive version of the crossover, not boxed yet (i'm busy with that the corona stuff blocks me to get some needed parts...).
For your setup with the 5" woofer a smaller FR is a better ID, maybe something in between like a 4" Alpair 7MS in a 4L sealed case is a better id, and a 2nd order crossover at 250-300Hz to the tangband is possible like that.
For your setup with the 5" woofer a smaller FR is a better ID, maybe something in between like a 4" Alpair 7MS in a 4L sealed case is a better id, and a 2nd order crossover at 250-300Hz to the tangband is possible like that.
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Been away from speaker stuff for a while so sorry I havent replied here yet. Thank you soo much for all your inputs.
A pair of 5.3s is on the way and also a pair of active crossover boards (4th order LR), I already have alot of amps so I figured if I'm gonna keep costs down at least a bit I might be better of going active. I’m thinking I will try with 1.7 L midTL thing for the FR and around 6L ported for the woofer. Crossover freq Im still not sure about, I don't have to play super loud but I like to turn it up sometimes.
A pair of 5.3s is on the way and also a pair of active crossover boards (4th order LR), I already have alot of amps so I figured if I'm gonna keep costs down at least a bit I might be better of going active. I’m thinking I will try with 1.7 L midTL thing for the FR and around 6L ported for the woofer. Crossover freq Im still not sure about, I don't have to play super loud but I like to turn it up sometimes.
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The boards and drivers are here and I´m quite set on going active with a crossover at around 250hz. I´m thinking that will relive the FR of lower frq duty and let me keep the FR enclosure small. If it´s to high to keep the woofer side mounted then I guess I´ll build a new cabinet with woofer on the front instead.