One of my late 90s 18W/8546 mounted in my QLN Signature 2-ways has suffered a similar failure: solder joint broken and all the 25mm length of voice coil wire glued against the cone fell out as tiny green pieces of copper oxide when I started peeling on the glue. Also, the glue itself had turned black… the driver is definitely beyond repair, at least for someone like me.
Too bad, I like the speakers and am now looking for a pair of something to replace the 8546s.
Too bad, I like the speakers and am now looking for a pair of something to replace the 8546s.
This type of manufacturing fault appears quite common with some batches of Scan-Speak drivers.
Only yesterday I had an 18W-8545-00 which exhibited an open circuit voice coil. I dismantled it and found exactly the same fault as you had. In my case it appears that the glue used was a rubber based contact cement. This is a no-no in electronics - it is corrosive to copper and aluminium. In my case the coil wires attached to the rear of the cone had completely turned to a grey-white oxide track. I have fed this info back to Scan-Speak but I don't expect a positive response. One would have thought that a company with the reputation of being a proud Scandinavian speaker manufacturer of note would know that only neutral cure adhesives should be used to attach copper wires to the rear of the cones. See pics attached.
I have another story equally horrendous with four Scan-Speak 18W-8542-00 drivers. After around 20 years the magnets and pole-pieces had started to slide - evidenced by the unequal edge showing around the edge of the rear pole piece plate and the magnet periphery. In one case the pole-piece had slammed hard to one side and trapped the voice coil damaging it irreparably. It was a simple matter to separate the magnets and pole-piece plates by inserting a knife and gradually increasing the thickness of plastic shims until I could easily pull the pole-piece plate off completely.
It seems that Scan-Speak had used Cyanoacrylate (superglue) to stick the parts together and this is a totally useless adhesive to use for such an application. With the effect of moisture and temperature over time the superglue loses adhesion and lets go thus allowing the polepiece to move and trap the voice coil. New replacements for these drivers is around AUD320 ea plus freight so I decided to repair them - they needed refoaming anyway. I had to fabricate semi-circular plastic spacers to set the voice coil gap and I used super strength Araldite epoxy to stick everything together.
I was able to make contact with a very helpful guy at Scan-Speak and he told me that they can manufacture replacement voice coil/cone assemblies for me and gave me the part number to order through Wagner (WES). I ordered 2 units which cost less than the price of a new driver. I was successfully able to repair the damaged speaker and I have one spare cone/voice coil/spider assembly if I ever need one. I did find that the foam surround supplied with the new cone is much more compliant (softer/thinner) than the after market foam surrounds supplied by QSR which I used on the other 3 drivers so I had to remove the Scan-Speak surround and replace it with the QSR unit so that all four drivers now had similar specs.
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I experienced the exact problem in my Eikona which is likely to be manufactured y scanspeak.
The plastic cover for the driver has scanspeak written .
This is the link
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/jordan-eikona-broken-voice-coil-wire.400135/#post-7373095
The plastic cover for the driver has scanspeak written .
This is the link
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/jordan-eikona-broken-voice-coil-wire.400135/#post-7373095
It is disappointing to read that a premium brand like scanspeak has potentially compromised the life of these drivers with such a trivial and cheap thing; a small blob of adhesive. Maybe it exceeds their design life (and obviously it exceeds the short warranty period), but still seems needlessly wasteful.
I've looked at my older scanspeak drivers, and there is some darkening and discoloration of the adhesive blobs; in some cases the wire within looks to be blackening too. Has anyone tried to proactively halt the process by removing the adhesive, or would doing this likely cause damage in itself?
I've looked at my older scanspeak drivers, and there is some darkening and discoloration of the adhesive blobs; in some cases the wire within looks to be blackening too. Has anyone tried to proactively halt the process by removing the adhesive, or would doing this likely cause damage in itself?
They have rather more than "potentially" compromised the life of their drivers by using inappropriate adhesives. They have "potentially" damaged their good reputation for producing high quality speakers which are reasonably expensive. I have not seen this sort of manufacturing "oversight" (that's being kind) in another speaker brand, but perhaps I haven't played with enough speaker brands though. However, I still have speakers manufactured in the 1960s and 70s that are as good as new. At least they haven't suffered from magnet gap closing down due to using the incorrect adhesive, or voice coil wires corroding away underneath a line of glue or sealant. I will probably steer well clear of Scan-Speak drivers in future.
Adding to my post #25 above...
I have just received a reply from Scan Speak after I notified them of the fatal problems I experienced with my 4 early production 18W-8542-00 (incorrect adhesive holding magnets) and a more recent 18W-8545-00 (incorrect adhesive holding coil lead out wires to cone). I also referred Scan Speak to this thread to indicate the sort of problems others have encountered with their drivers - he did say they kept an eye on forums for negative comments and reports.
The answer was that "they are aware of the problems... but these are all very old drivers and we have since corrected the shortcomings."
So, it appears that we can now safely buy Scan Speak drivers without any worries that the magnets will shift or the coil wires will corrode under the adhesive ever again...
Good luck!!
I have just received a reply from Scan Speak after I notified them of the fatal problems I experienced with my 4 early production 18W-8542-00 (incorrect adhesive holding magnets) and a more recent 18W-8545-00 (incorrect adhesive holding coil lead out wires to cone). I also referred Scan Speak to this thread to indicate the sort of problems others have encountered with their drivers - he did say they kept an eye on forums for negative comments and reports.
The answer was that "they are aware of the problems... but these are all very old drivers and we have since corrected the shortcomings."
So, it appears that we can now safely buy Scan Speak drivers without any worries that the magnets will shift or the coil wires will corrode under the adhesive ever again...
Good luck!!
Useful for new purchases, assuming there has been time to verify the correction has worked.
Though this doesn't help all that much as a previous buyer of scanspeak drivers. I do wonder when the correction was actually introduced, and/or what they consider 'very old' (it doesn't require very long for a driver to become considerably beyond their short warranty period, for instance). Mine have no dates on that I can see either, just some code numbers.
I'm in the middle of making new speaker designs for some of the my scanspeak drivers; I'm thinking now to abandon these and move on to drivers with more likelihood of lasting into the future. Probably a different brand, to be sure.
Though this doesn't help all that much as a previous buyer of scanspeak drivers. I do wonder when the correction was actually introduced, and/or what they consider 'very old' (it doesn't require very long for a driver to become considerably beyond their short warranty period, for instance). Mine have no dates on that I can see either, just some code numbers.
I'm in the middle of making new speaker designs for some of the my scanspeak drivers; I'm thinking now to abandon these and move on to drivers with more likelihood of lasting into the future. Probably a different brand, to be sure.
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Thanks for the info you have gained, it is kind of you to pass it on to us.
It would be good if they answer your latest questions. Possibly quite important for their reputation too, since owners of even relatively recent drivers may be doubting their purchases, without more clarity on when things were improved.
It would be good if they answer your latest questions. Possibly quite important for their reputation too, since owners of even relatively recent drivers may be doubting their purchases, without more clarity on when things were improved.
I have asked a similar question to a Scan Speak representative when my Vifa/Peerless TC9 FD18-08 drivers from 2012 suffered the same faith with corroded coil/lead out wires below the blob of glue. Upon research I had noticed similar faults in Scan Speak drivers from past years.
While looking for a solution I wanted to be reassured that Scan Speak, who designed that Vifa/Peerless driver when it was still part of the Scan Speak line-up, had remedied this problem in their own strongly related driver line-up (the Scan Speak 10F series).
The answer I got from Scan Speak at the time was that they were aware of the corrosion problems and had changed the glue. I replaced all my TC9 drivers with the 10F series, all 50 of them. I took a leap of faith and went ahead and replaced my drivers with a new batch of 10F replacements. Time will tell, hopefully a very long time. The Vifa/Peerless drivers were just short of 10 years old when the problems started. Hoping to get way longer out of the Scan Speak drivers
.I had also send the same inquiries about the corrosion problems to Tymphany (these days the owner of the Vifa/Peerless brand) and their European distributor, sadly I never got an answer from them.
Latest Scan Speak reply on June 29,2023.
"The changes (remedies) were made over a relatively long period of time so there is not only one specific date.
18W/8545-00 had a major update around 2010 where it also changed item number to 18W/8545-01, but since then there has been several minor updates.
Over the years Scan-Speak have used different format of productions codes, in this case PW stands for Production Week and shall be read as week 02 of a year ending with 9 and as I know we changed logo to red/black in 2007 it must be from 1999 or it could also be 1989, but I doubt it is that old."
Since my 18W-8545 is labelled PW 029 it was made in week 2 of 1999. Note also that the babel was blue and black lettering. If Scan Speak is correct the label colour changed to red and black lettering in 2007 so using the above information you should get a good idea of when your drivers were made. In passing, one would think it a far better idea to use 2 digits to indicate the year in the PW code so that the date could be pinned to a specific decade.
"The changes (remedies) were made over a relatively long period of time so there is not only one specific date.
18W/8545-00 had a major update around 2010 where it also changed item number to 18W/8545-01, but since then there has been several minor updates.
Over the years Scan-Speak have used different format of productions codes, in this case PW stands for Production Week and shall be read as week 02 of a year ending with 9 and as I know we changed logo to red/black in 2007 it must be from 1999 or it could also be 1989, but I doubt it is that old."
Since my 18W-8545 is labelled PW 029 it was made in week 2 of 1999. Note also that the babel was blue and black lettering. If Scan Speak is correct the label colour changed to red and black lettering in 2007 so using the above information you should get a good idea of when your drivers were made. In passing, one would think it a far better idea to use 2 digits to indicate the year in the PW code so that the date could be pinned to a specific decade.
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Thank you, that is again very valuable info. I agree the date code is lacking for the sake of a printed digit.
My 15W8530K01 drivers were purchased new in about 2013; quite an outlay for me. With only ten years of gentle and infrequent hifi use I wasn't expecting their days to be numbered any time soon. However they don't have the red+black logo, just a blue one, so they must have been on the shelf since at least 2007 and indeed the code is PW:187 - making them 2007 (or even 1997 etc).
So, in view of the discolouration around the glue, I'll probably abandon the new project and enclosures I was building for these. Likely the same will apply to my 26W drivers, when I take them out to look at the label. Ho hum.
My 15W8530K01 drivers were purchased new in about 2013; quite an outlay for me. With only ten years of gentle and infrequent hifi use I wasn't expecting their days to be numbered any time soon. However they don't have the red+black logo, just a blue one, so they must have been on the shelf since at least 2007 and indeed the code is PW:187 - making them 2007 (or even 1997 etc).
So, in view of the discolouration around the glue, I'll probably abandon the new project and enclosures I was building for these. Likely the same will apply to my 26W drivers, when I take them out to look at the label. Ho hum.
Hi Kev. If the coils are open circuit as in mine and they don't appear to have suffered any damage or burnout you have little to lose by having a go at fixing them yourself.
This is a brief summary of the procedure used to repair my 8545;
I used Isopropynol to soften the glue on the spider and surround then gently lifted the edges on both and worked my way around the circumferences dabbing more fluid as I went. The terminal block is easily levered off the frame. Once free the cone is easily removed so you can inspect the coil and leadout wires. More fluid on the glue on the back of the cone will allow you to prise off the wires. If they are corroded away then you will need to carefully solder new wire onto the ends of the coil - this assumes you are experienced with a fine tipped soldering iron and have the necessary tools. The new wires can be glued to the back of the cone after attaching the ends to the lead-out braids using a non-corrosive EVA based glue such as Bostik 4709. This is a commercial adhesive which only available in bulk but there are very similar EVA adhesives available from craft shops - eg, http://www.cartellglue.com/eva-adhesive.
You neeed to be very careful where paper based cone materials are involved as they are easily destroyed. I used a thin application of superglue to seal any scuffed areas of the paper cones on mine before gluing down the wires. I also apply superglue to the periphery of paper cones before gluing down new surrounds as this prevents further damage and the removal of more cone material when old surrounds are removed. It prevents further damage if I have to fit new surrounds again in the future.
Fitting the cone back after coil repair requires the use of a number of shim spacers about 3 - 4mm wide and about 50mm long to evenly space the voice coil around the centre pole-piece - on my 42mm VC I used 9 spacers of thin clear acrylic sheet. Of course you will need to remove the dust cap before you can insert the spacers. Before fitting the cone check that there is no foreign matter (especially magnetic material) in the voice coil gap.
Do a trial fit first before applying EVA glue to the spider circumference. When satisfied things look OK remove the cone and apply EVA glue to the spider circumference, insert the cone over the pole piece and insert all of the shim spacers evenly around the voice coil. Depress the cone until the spider appears to be flat on the glued area. You may need to spend around 15 - 20 minutes pressing down the edges of the spider with your fingers until the glue sets sufficiently. When the spider sits nice and flat to the frame you must leave the glue to set. I usually wait till the next day before I remove the shims and check that the voice coil moves without scraping the pole-piece when lightly depressed. When satisfied gently lift the periphery of the surround and apply EVA glue all round. Remember to re-insert the shim spacers around the pole-piece to ensure the voice coil remains vertically aligned in the gap. Depress the voice coil when the shims are in place and it should stay depressed due to friction with the shims and then make sure the edge of the surround is flat on the circumference of the frame by occasionally pressing with your finger untill the glue has set sufficiently to hold it in place. Now leave the glue to set - again, I usually wait till the next day before removing the shims. After the glue has set remove the shims and you should be able to depress the cone lightly without any scraping of the voice coil against the pole piece. Now you can re-attach the dust cap and your finished.
This is a brief summary of the procedure used to repair my 8545;
I used Isopropynol to soften the glue on the spider and surround then gently lifted the edges on both and worked my way around the circumferences dabbing more fluid as I went. The terminal block is easily levered off the frame. Once free the cone is easily removed so you can inspect the coil and leadout wires. More fluid on the glue on the back of the cone will allow you to prise off the wires. If they are corroded away then you will need to carefully solder new wire onto the ends of the coil - this assumes you are experienced with a fine tipped soldering iron and have the necessary tools. The new wires can be glued to the back of the cone after attaching the ends to the lead-out braids using a non-corrosive EVA based glue such as Bostik 4709. This is a commercial adhesive which only available in bulk but there are very similar EVA adhesives available from craft shops - eg, http://www.cartellglue.com/eva-adhesive.
You neeed to be very careful where paper based cone materials are involved as they are easily destroyed. I used a thin application of superglue to seal any scuffed areas of the paper cones on mine before gluing down the wires. I also apply superglue to the periphery of paper cones before gluing down new surrounds as this prevents further damage and the removal of more cone material when old surrounds are removed. It prevents further damage if I have to fit new surrounds again in the future.
Fitting the cone back after coil repair requires the use of a number of shim spacers about 3 - 4mm wide and about 50mm long to evenly space the voice coil around the centre pole-piece - on my 42mm VC I used 9 spacers of thin clear acrylic sheet. Of course you will need to remove the dust cap before you can insert the spacers. Before fitting the cone check that there is no foreign matter (especially magnetic material) in the voice coil gap.
Do a trial fit first before applying EVA glue to the spider circumference. When satisfied things look OK remove the cone and apply EVA glue to the spider circumference, insert the cone over the pole piece and insert all of the shim spacers evenly around the voice coil. Depress the cone until the spider appears to be flat on the glued area. You may need to spend around 15 - 20 minutes pressing down the edges of the spider with your fingers until the glue sets sufficiently. When the spider sits nice and flat to the frame you must leave the glue to set. I usually wait till the next day before I remove the shims and check that the voice coil moves without scraping the pole-piece when lightly depressed. When satisfied gently lift the periphery of the surround and apply EVA glue all round. Remember to re-insert the shim spacers around the pole-piece to ensure the voice coil remains vertically aligned in the gap. Depress the voice coil when the shims are in place and it should stay depressed due to friction with the shims and then make sure the edge of the surround is flat on the circumference of the frame by occasionally pressing with your finger untill the glue has set sufficiently to hold it in place. Now leave the glue to set - again, I usually wait till the next day before removing the shims. After the glue has set remove the shims and you should be able to depress the cone lightly without any scraping of the voice coil against the pole piece. Now you can re-attach the dust cap and your finished.
Thanks very much for all the detailed info!
That could be invaluable. At the moment my drivers are working, but there is discolouration of the glue and much blackening of the metal conductors beneath. Combined with the date code and your info from scanspeak, it looks to be just a case of when they'll fail (not if).
Which isn't great as I'm currently working on a fairly complicated and time-consuming speaker build for them. I'd thought about cutting my losses and just abandoning it, or trying to remove the glue to save the drivers before investing any more time in the project. But that latter seems likely to damage the conductors, especially as they look already weakened. So probably best to either stop now or else wait until they finally go when there'd be nothing more to lose. Your info gives me hope that it could be done, if I didn't mess it up.
A reminder that Scan Speak 10F/8424G00 is a drop in replacement for it, as per the older post
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/scanspeak-13m-8636-sudden-death.310858/post-5581813
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/scanspeak-13m-8636-sudden-death.310858/post-5581813
the Eikona bought in 2015. If they knew about the problem , why does the problem arises in my speaker manufactured in 2015I have asked a similar question to a Scan Speak representative when my Vifa/Peerless TC9 FD18-08 drivers from 2012 suffered the same faith with corroded coil/lead out wires below the blob of glue. Upon research I had noticed similar faults in Scan Speak drivers from past years.
While looking for a solution I wanted to be reassured that Scan Speak, who designed that Vifa/Peerless driver when it was still part of the Scan Speak line-up, had remedied this problem in their own strongly related driver line-up (the Scan Speak 10F series).
The answer I got from Scan Speak at the time was that they were aware of the corrosion problems and had changed the glue. I replaced all my TC9 drivers with the 10F series, all 50 of them. I took a leap of faith and went ahead and replaced my drivers with a new batch of 10F replacements. Time will tell, hopefully a very long time. The Vifa/Peerless drivers were just short of 10 years old when the problems started. Hoping to get way longer out of the Scan Speak drivers
I had also send the same inquiries about the corrosion problems to Tymphany (these days the owner of the Vifa/Peerless brand) and their European distributor, sadly I never got an answer from them.
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Sorry, I cannot answer that. I merely mentioned what a Scan Speak representative told me before I bought 56x 10F drivers.
Did you ask Scan Speak about it? If the 18F was updated in 2010 like @rherber1 mentioned,
having a speaker with a date code of 2015 fail is not something any of us would expect! Who knows, I may regret buying mine somewhere in the near future. I hope not.
Did you ask Scan Speak about it? If the 18F was updated in 2010 like @rherber1 mentioned,
having a speaker with a date code of 2015 fail is not something any of us would expect! Who knows, I may regret buying mine somewhere in the near future. I hope not.
Indeed it isn't. I suppose the reply to rherber1 did say that "The changes (remedies) were made over a relatively long period of time so there is not only one specific date". So, there hasn't AFAIK been a 'resolved by' date identified, that we can be confident of across all models of their drivers.
Maybe some models went on unchanged until after 2015? Seems a bit unlikely, but then the whole thing is rather unexpected and (it appears) wasn't exactly dealt with overnight.
Maybe some models went on unchanged until after 2015? Seems a bit unlikely, but then the whole thing is rather unexpected and (it appears) wasn't exactly dealt with overnight.