Paper - Aluminum - Titanium - Polypropylene
- Carbon Fibre - Polycarbonate - Glassfibre -Bamboo - Mylar
I am sure there are lots of others I am unaware of
Cone options of today...LOTS and it is confusing
What material do you prefer ?
or maybe it doesn't matter what the cone is made of...( I doubt that )
have read "Paper" is still in the top choices of materials
It has been many years since I was into Speaker building and trying to get brought up to the current state of Transducer technology.
- Carbon Fibre - Polycarbonate - Glassfibre -Bamboo - Mylar
I am sure there are lots of others I am unaware of
Cone options of today...LOTS and it is confusing
What material do you prefer ?
or maybe it doesn't matter what the cone is made of...( I doubt that )
have read "Paper" is still in the top choices of materials
It has been many years since I was into Speaker building and trying to get brought up to the current state of Transducer technology.
First paper, second polypropylene for Hi Fi.
Others are "engineering wonders" or "marketing wonders" , may look impressive but often have one problem or another.
Titanium or aluminum is fine for compression drivers, not exactly the average speaker.
Mylar is fine for 1 3/4" 1 W RMS PC speakers
Bamboo is great for sushi rolling mats.
Others are "engineering wonders" or "marketing wonders" , may look impressive but often have one problem or another.
Titanium or aluminum is fine for compression drivers, not exactly the average speaker.
Mylar is fine for 1 3/4" 1 W RMS PC speakers
Bamboo is great for sushi rolling mats.
Without a vast amount of qualification, it's almost meaningless. Which is not to say it makes no difference -of course it does. But there is a lot more to drive unit design and behaviour than 'simply' the cone material, since basic scientific methodology dictates that only one variable is changed at any one time. And you are unlikely to find units identical in all respects but for cone material.
There are a few broad trends; for e.g. with a metal cone 3rd order distortion behaviour is often predominant whereas with 'paper' it's often 2nd. But again, there are a large number of other matters. Suspension & motor design have to be considered, along with the cone dimensions, profile, thickness &c. which have a huge impact on the overall behaviour. The frame can too. And that's before you consider what is meant by 'paper' for example. Paper is not just paper. They are not all the same. There are an infinite number of combinations, all of which affect behaviour. Likewise the others. Take Aluminium. What grade? There are a large number of commercially available types. And so on & so forth.
There are a few broad trends; for e.g. with a metal cone 3rd order distortion behaviour is often predominant whereas with 'paper' it's often 2nd. But again, there are a large number of other matters. Suspension & motor design have to be considered, along with the cone dimensions, profile, thickness &c. which have a huge impact on the overall behaviour. The frame can too. And that's before you consider what is meant by 'paper' for example. Paper is not just paper. They are not all the same. There are an infinite number of combinations, all of which affect behaviour. Likewise the others. Take Aluminium. What grade? There are a large number of commercially available types. And so on & so forth.
eh.
I was impressed with a morel woofer, but it wasn't trying to go flat-ish to 10khz either.
It was poly but stiffened with talc powder.
But otherwise, paper for me.
Granted a paper cone is mostly glue, let alone thin/thick fibres and how they are arranged...........
I'd imagine carbon fiber/kevlar is very popular, but it usually has 2 strong hf resonances.
Never heard hemp, but people like it.
I like my wool silver flute 8's but they peak bad at 4khz and 5khz..................
Even the wild burro "betsy" drivers went back to paper. Said to sound better.
I have hope for a mesh thing, similar to the 47 labs lens, but I need more than 3"............
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2011/03/47-labs-lens-standmount-loudspeaker/
Norman
I was impressed with a morel woofer, but it wasn't trying to go flat-ish to 10khz either.
It was poly but stiffened with talc powder.
But otherwise, paper for me.
Granted a paper cone is mostly glue, let alone thin/thick fibres and how they are arranged...........
I'd imagine carbon fiber/kevlar is very popular, but it usually has 2 strong hf resonances.
Never heard hemp, but people like it.
I like my wool silver flute 8's but they peak bad at 4khz and 5khz..................
Even the wild burro "betsy" drivers went back to paper. Said to sound better.
I have hope for a mesh thing, similar to the 47 labs lens, but I need more than 3"............
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2011/03/47-labs-lens-standmount-loudspeaker/
Norman
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All rigid cones come with their own set of problems. The best cone material would be something stiff and light enough that it pushes the inherent bell mode like resonances, so far out of the typical pass band, so that they do not to creep into the distortion spectra, within that pass band - whilst also having attractive T/S specs and sensitivity.
In other words you'd want a 5" mid with breakup at like 15kHz, and a dome tweeter with a breakup beyond 60k, but more like 100k.
In other words you'd want a 5" mid with breakup at like 15kHz, and a dome tweeter with a breakup beyond 60k, but more like 100k.
Well in the right design all cone materials can be used to great effect. If you're going to design a soft cone for a loudspeaker driver you'd better make sure that it's well controlled through its breakup region, otherwise what's the point?
There are some drivers out there, that make use of paper and poly cones to a great degree, that exhibit very benign and well controlled breakup. This is the point of going soft cone.
On the other hand there are drivers with softer cones that have crap breakup profiles. Maybe the response doesn't filter back into horrible distortion products, but say a 6" driver with a great cone can almost be used without a filter, a 6" driver with a rigid cone will break-up around 5k and need a steep filter around 1.6k to be used at its best. Designing that filter is usually easy though as rigid coned drivers typically have extremely flat pass bands before breakup proper. But then you have the awful variety of drivers that are soft cones with bad breakup. This tends to occur anywhere between 1-3khz usually and makes the response really ragged. This is even harder to deal with than the rigid cone because it sits where you'd want the xover to be, or within the transition band. This makes designing the xover a right pain in the behind.
So from my perspective I'd want to use either a well designed soft cone, or a very rigid cone, not something in between, or a poorly designed soft cone.
There are some drivers out there, that make use of paper and poly cones to a great degree, that exhibit very benign and well controlled breakup. This is the point of going soft cone.
On the other hand there are drivers with softer cones that have crap breakup profiles. Maybe the response doesn't filter back into horrible distortion products, but say a 6" driver with a great cone can almost be used without a filter, a 6" driver with a rigid cone will break-up around 5k and need a steep filter around 1.6k to be used at its best. Designing that filter is usually easy though as rigid coned drivers typically have extremely flat pass bands before breakup proper. But then you have the awful variety of drivers that are soft cones with bad breakup. This tends to occur anywhere between 1-3khz usually and makes the response really ragged. This is even harder to deal with than the rigid cone because it sits where you'd want the xover to be, or within the transition band. This makes designing the xover a right pain in the behind.
So from my perspective I'd want to use either a well designed soft cone, or a very rigid cone, not something in between, or a poorly designed soft cone.
I thought that it is just a painted poly?
Mainly paper, bamboo fibre, papyrus fibre, paper/kenaf in no particular order
(and none of the majority of the other man made stuff - there might be some exceptions there that I am unaware off).
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Nope, the cone is titanium. Not that that means anything in itself. They did have a few painted cones a while back -haven't checked recently though.
I believe that cone/dome materials fall into two categories:
FILM
FIBRE
All the fibre types have inherent damping due to friction between the fibres moving relative to each other.
Carbon, Kevlar, Silk, Glass, Paper, Bamboo etc.
All the film types, if they need extra damping, will require a coating to be applied.
Plastic, Metal, short list. Are there any others?
FILM
FIBRE
All the fibre types have inherent damping due to friction between the fibres moving relative to each other.
Carbon, Kevlar, Silk, Glass, Paper, Bamboo etc.
All the film types, if they need extra damping, will require a coating to be applied.
Plastic, Metal, short list. Are there any others?
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If I remember, someone said if you want to hear the "cone cry" or the noise a driver makes by way of what materials are in it, is to lightly scrape the back of your fingernail across it.
Suppose a driver resonates at 3khz, wil it ring there even if there is only a 500hz tone ?
I know a 500hz tone will have harmonic distortion (tone at 1kh, 1.5khz, 2khz, but smaller and smaller in strength).
I've seen where a notch filter helps but doesn't stop a resonance. The hivi b3s, even though the 8khz notch circuit was there, any noise at 4khz would set off the 8khz resonance.
Norman
Suppose a driver resonates at 3khz, wil it ring there even if there is only a 500hz tone ?
I know a 500hz tone will have harmonic distortion (tone at 1kh, 1.5khz, 2khz, but smaller and smaller in strength).
I've seen where a notch filter helps but doesn't stop a resonance. The hivi b3s, even though the 8khz notch circuit was there, any noise at 4khz would set off the 8khz resonance.
Norman
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