that's real time video on a Zoom Q3 camera - a photo could look much better- i'm forced to use the high sensitivity mic setting as it just seems to take too much spl to peg the other setting. "Auto" seems to gain ride so that's no good.
FE206EN is a great little Karlson driver - works well in the Karlsonette - its more lively than W8-1772 whose cone has a lot of damping pulp applied to the rear. 206 is my favorite fullrange overall.
did you think 206 had better attack than the 2-way (generic xover) with 8 and K-tube?
https://youtu.be/T71pRwTGfuc
as usual, I botched a link - here's the Alan Parson's Sound Check sax cut with 1772 in a K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1RYpD9MrV0
FE206EN is a great little Karlson driver - works well in the Karlsonette - its more lively than W8-1772 whose cone has a lot of damping pulp applied to the rear. 206 is my favorite fullrange overall.
did you think 206 had better attack than the 2-way (generic xover) with 8 and K-tube?
https://youtu.be/T71pRwTGfuc
as usual, I botched a link - here's the Alan Parson's Sound Check sax cut with 1772 in a K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1RYpD9MrV0
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I put an old Pyle PYM1298 into an ancient/beat diy Karlsonette which I furthered beat by plugging its horizontal slot port and hacking a rough ~3" x 4" high port into the panel above the baffle. This with a Dayton D250P on a Transylvania K-tube has good dynamics - makes 12lta sound like the weak thing it is and crushes the fullanges for dynamics - i think it has better dynamics and clarity than my Klipschorn (will have to compare) but a K-horn only uses a 54 ounce ferrite slug
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Its good in a K12 imo to avoid the distributed slit port, use decent motors - that means for a 12 inch speaker, keeping mass down and at least 80 ounces of ferrite slug.
Eminence's Kappa 12a is the current equivalent of pym1298.
Use the K-tube instead of waveguide or horn - it will blend better
a setup like this would make a nice little keyboard or electronic drum speaker.
-
Its good in a K12 imo to avoid the distributed slit port, use decent motors - that means for a 12 inch speaker, keeping mass down and at least 80 ounces of ferrite slug.
Eminence's Kappa 12a is the current equivalent of pym1298.
Use the K-tube instead of waveguide or horn - it will blend better
a setup like this would make a nice little keyboard or electronic drum speaker.
would the distribute hole array port used by Karlson in a kit version of the K12 exhibit the high velocities of the 1956 K12's distributed slit port? In between that port and a single ~ 12 sq. inch port? It was sold with a blank port board and apparently, instructions (missing) on drilling the holes. K12 usually have system tuning around 60-62Hz
X,
Could I use a pair of P.audio BM-15CX38's in full size or larger Karlsonators, or is their Qts too low?
Sensitivity: 100dB
Impedance: 8ohm
Fs: 36Hz
Re: 7ohm
Qes: 0.23
Qms: 5.53
Qts: 0.22
VAS: 287litres
Sd: 830cm2
Efficiency: 5.7%
Xmax: 4.5mm
Mms:64.9gram
BL: 21.03Tm
HF Driver
Power RMS: 75W
Sensitivity: 109dB
Frequency Range: 500-18K
Woofer drops off at 3KHz.
Thankyou,
coit
Could I use a pair of P.audio BM-15CX38's in full size or larger Karlsonators, or is their Qts too low?
Sensitivity: 100dB
Impedance: 8ohm
Fs: 36Hz
Re: 7ohm
Qes: 0.23
Qms: 5.53
Qts: 0.22
VAS: 287litres
Sd: 830cm2
Efficiency: 5.7%
Xmax: 4.5mm
Mms:64.9gram
BL: 21.03Tm
HF Driver
Power RMS: 75W
Sensitivity: 109dB
Frequency Range: 500-18K
Woofer drops off at 3KHz.
Thankyou,
coit
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xrk971 will have to simulate the Karlsonator - system tuning will determine a lot - - - - If they have good/lively midrange, then should be nice in the original Karlson "K15" Mms and BL look very favorable. I've run P-Audio's SN15C in K15 which has a BMD440 one inch format compression driver with good result - and need to make some crossovers for that system. I've been fixated on the little K12. and attempts at 8 and 10" K-coupler.
freddi,
I am running them open baffle, and the clarity is stunning.
Weak bass, needs extra subs. Using DBX234xs for crossovers and to reduce HF input.
I have made several pairs of Karlsonators with Viva and Dayton drivers and just thought that the P.audios, if suitable, would sound great.
I am totally sold on X's Karlsonators.
My son loves the Vivas with 3116 and good PSU.
Which of the "original" Karlson designs on the Karlson webpage do you recommend?
thanks
coit
I am running them open baffle, and the clarity is stunning.
Weak bass, needs extra subs. Using DBX234xs for crossovers and to reduce HF input.
I have made several pairs of Karlsonators with Viva and Dayton drivers and just thought that the P.audios, if suitable, would sound great.
I am totally sold on X's Karlsonators.
My son loves the Vivas with 3116 and good PSU.
Which of the "original" Karlson designs on the Karlson webpage do you recommend?
thanks
coit
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Hi Colt - -- K15 as presented in the January 1954 issue of Radio and Television News http://classicaudio.ru/forum/uploads/monthly_08_2011/post-329-1385471361,079.png
lets see what X says about Karlsonator possibilities.
K15 does not go "low" but that said, can be very agile and powerful in the bass with excellent cone control. (Its really better than most front load horns)
btw, from Carl Neuser's calc, K15's wings are 51" radius
here's C's note: (t=1/2 gap at start; w = 1/2 final width)
"Compute the radius r as follows:
r = ( h^2 + w^2 - w*t + t^2 )/2*( w - t )
For Karlson 15, h = 30.19, w = 10.17, t = .23, r = 51
For Karlson 12, h = 23.5, w = 7.38, t = .25, r = 42.5
lets see what X says about Karlsonator possibilities.
K15 does not go "low" but that said, can be very agile and powerful in the bass with excellent cone control. (Its really better than most front load horns)
btw, from Carl Neuser's calc, K15's wings are 51" radius
here's C's note: (t=1/2 gap at start; w = 1/2 final width)
"Compute the radius r as follows:
r = ( h^2 + w^2 - w*t + t^2 )/2*( w - t )
For Karlson 15, h = 30.19, w = 10.17, t = .23, r = 51
For Karlson 12, h = 23.5, w = 7.38, t = .25, r = 42.5
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here's a rough comparison of the little Acoustic Control 115BK with a 15" vs a larger folded horn with 10" - the Karlson can use a crossover up to 1K6 and sound pretty good - the horn has to do ~400Hz crossover. I also think the K-coupler may exhibit lower distortion - at least in this case. There's a point in path length where the horn takes over.
A K-tube on top of 115Bk makes for good sound.
here it is with a 1960's style K-tube derived from one seen in Karlson's "X15" system. X15 had the tube mounted internally- which works very well.
If scaled 1.2:1 then it would be around K15's bulk and should make a nice "K18"
I should have taken on and off axis plots but the ground plane was pretty good and there was no damping material at all in the cabinet. 115BK I think, is derivedfrom whatever plan generated Transylvania Power Company's little K coupler. Perhaps Mrs.
Karlson supplied the X15 plan with big vent (?)
115BK without the wings inset, would only be 13.5" deep. Height was 27 inches, width - 20.5"
vent area is quite large at around 27 sq.in. so it doesn't compress for any practical input power.
A K-tube on top of 115Bk makes for good sound.
here it is with a 1960's style K-tube derived from one seen in Karlson's "X15" system. X15 had the tube mounted internally- which works very well.
If scaled 1.2:1 then it would be around K15's bulk and should make a nice "K18"
I should have taken on and off axis plots but the ground plane was pretty good and there was no damping material at all in the cabinet. 115BK I think, is derivedfrom whatever plan generated Transylvania Power Company's little K coupler. Perhaps Mrs.
Karlson supplied the X15 plan with big vent (?)
115BK without the wings inset, would only be 13.5" deep. Height was 27 inches, width - 20.5"
vent area is quite large at around 27 sq.in. so it doesn't compress for any practical input power.
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Yes, the Qts is too low, here is the response in a 15/12x scale Karlsonator. The bass falls off quite a bit from the nominal 100db. With heavy BSC it would be a 92dB speaker.
Attachments
I have probably 3-4 SE tube amps - but almost always use solid state amps with real power for my Karlsons. K15 would extract more "usable bass" from your coax than reflex, T-line or BVR. The vent can be the 1954 spec of 4.5" wide by 9" high - then you can narrow the vent with wood piece to 3.5" for comparison - that has almost no effect upon the low end but does affect the way the speaker sounds. BEST, Freddy
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Hey X - in a little ~40Hz tuned Karlflex (post 1188 of MMJ's thread), it looks like 1pi and 1 watt for Colt's 15cx38 is "ok" - a reflex tuned similar probably would have a similar low end. I don't know how the Karlflex would play subjectively vs K15 - its probably like the XKi would be with a relatively small aperture compared to cone area
Here's that plan - it would look pretty if nothing else
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...uned-6th-order-karlflex_15p1200nd_smaller.pdf
dunno about how tough if is to get 1pi in a living room - a BVR tuned around 40-45 might be good to get some punch - RCA-Fan published one some years back with 70 liter chamber (not including the vent) RCA-Fan's V-vent reflex is a nice big vent if not tapered vent reflex.
Maybe a little hit box would work with this CX ? - it might have too much "flavor? - ? Bill designed
it to put some "hit" into the mix - that can emphasize things like cello, and percussion. Traditional
Karlson often have some "hit" characteristics.
Here's that plan - it would look pretty if nothing else
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...uned-6th-order-karlflex_15p1200nd_smaller.pdf
dunno about how tough if is to get 1pi in a living room - a BVR tuned around 40-45 might be good to get some punch - RCA-Fan published one some years back with 70 liter chamber (not including the vent) RCA-Fan's V-vent reflex is a nice big vent if not tapered vent reflex.
Maybe a little hit box would work with this CX ? - it might have too much "flavor? - ? Bill designed
it to put some "hit" into the mix - that can emphasize things like cello, and percussion. Traditional
Karlson often have some "hit" characteristics.
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All right X, how about these: P.audio HP-10W 10"
You can only get 8ohm ones now, but I have 4 of the 4ohm drivers.
They are in many specs similar to the 10CX.
Power 100-200W
Sensitivity 96dB
Magnet Weight 29.91oz
Fs 48.43Hz
Re 6.5ohm
Qes 0.44
Qms 5.9
Qts 0.4
VAS 55.35litres
Sd 340cm2
Efficiency 1.38%
Xmax 3mm
Mms 32.01grams
BL 12.08TM
Le 1.03mH
Less Xmax,bit stronger motor,higher Le,bit lower VAS.
What do you think?
thanks
coit
PS: What tweeter do you reckon and where would you mount it?
I am amazed your brain hasn't overloaded with everyones' questions.
PPS: I have a spare Mini DSP so crossovers no problem.
You can only get 8ohm ones now, but I have 4 of the 4ohm drivers.
They are in many specs similar to the 10CX.
Power 100-200W
Sensitivity 96dB
Magnet Weight 29.91oz
Fs 48.43Hz
Re 6.5ohm
Qes 0.44
Qms 5.9
Qts 0.4
VAS 55.35litres
Sd 340cm2
Efficiency 1.38%
Xmax 3mm
Mms 32.01grams
BL 12.08TM
Le 1.03mH
Less Xmax,bit stronger motor,higher Le,bit lower VAS.
What do you think?
thanks
coit
PS: What tweeter do you reckon and where would you mount it?
I am amazed your brain hasn't overloaded with everyones' questions.
PPS: I have a spare Mini DSP so crossovers no problem.
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until X gets around to answer, for the tweeter I suggest you take a piece of 1" pipe about 5.5" - make a paper half ellipse pattern with major axis 10.6" ->11", and minor axis to just about wrap around the pipe and leave a 1/8" starting gap. Tape the pattern to the pipe, trace with a marker then cut with a Dremel type tube. Thin plywood can be used for a mounting plate to fit the K-tube to standard bolt-on 1 inch format compression drivers. There are probably some good ones in the US $30-45 range.
if the slot is "down" then the tube will angle "up" - usually about the same angle as your woofer-K baffle. Also if the slot is "up" then the tube will angle down as with Wolf von Langa and Faerber Acoustics' K-tubes
Fifty years ago, the K-tube was used "inside" Karlson's X15 2-way speaker system and mounted as below
that heavy 15cx should be nice in K15 - your Boominator speaker - X will have to give you ideas. I would suggest a K12 with ~10.3" cutout then adapter to hold the 10"
the thick wall of schedule 40 pvc makes the aperture a bit narrow -
it might be helpful to compensate. Thin-wall pvc is ok but probably too weak and resonant.
tube on top of K18
tube on top of Acoustic 115bk
Transylvania Power made a great K-tube - it was licensed to LEECH UK and the late Ernst Beck in Germany
it also was made in a double size for 2 inch format drivers
if the slot is "down" then the tube will angle "up" - usually about the same angle as your woofer-K baffle. Also if the slot is "up" then the tube will angle down as with Wolf von Langa and Faerber Acoustics' K-tubes
Fifty years ago, the K-tube was used "inside" Karlson's X15 2-way speaker system and mounted as below
that heavy 15cx should be nice in K15 - your Boominator speaker - X will have to give you ideas. I would suggest a K12 with ~10.3" cutout then adapter to hold the 10"
the thick wall of schedule 40 pvc makes the aperture a bit narrow -
it might be helpful to compensate. Thin-wall pvc is ok but probably too weak and resonant.
tube on top of K18
tube on top of Acoustic 115bk
Transylvania Power made a great K-tube - it was licensed to LEECH UK and the late Ernst Beck in Germany
it also was made in a double size for 2 inch format drivers
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Thank you freddi. I will try this, maybe with the ASD 1001 compression driver recommended for the 10CX.
I will have a look at what's similar and available in Australia.
My favourite X design has become the 0.53 Karlsonator with the PA130.
I'd love to be able to hear full size Karlsons and Karlsonators.
thanks
coit
I will have a look at what's similar and available in Australia.
My favourite X design has become the 0.53 Karlsonator with the PA130.
I'd love to be able to hear full size Karlsons and Karlsonators.
thanks
coit
ASD1001 should be a nice K-tube driver - I've used it on the more sensitive Eminence stage monitor 12cx. You could have the 1 3/8" threads press fit into a base/holder and at first just tape the tube to the driver exit.
I had Karlsonators with TC9D (cool), Karlsonator Six which has run FE164 and L.Cao F6 (booth good - sharper attack from the low Q Fostex), Karlsonator 12 with Beta10cx (went to 37Hz before LF rolloff), Beta 12LTA - best bass I've heard from that driver, Nirvana Super 10 stamped-frame - wide range - good transients - more lively mids than Beta 10cx.
the original Karlson have their place and sometimes make more sense than the Karlsonator - like using a K12 with subwoofer in place of a midbass horn with sub. A K12 with Pyle pym1298 (Eminence woofer like Kappa12a) topped with a K-tube has a more impressive sound field and attack than my Klipschorns. Of course much different.
if you have ASD1001 on hand - try to make a paper K-tube in size and slot shape like the ones above or this thinwall pvc tube as proof of concept. It might take a few layers of paper to make it stiff.
I had Karlsonators with TC9D (cool), Karlsonator Six which has run FE164 and L.Cao F6 (booth good - sharper attack from the low Q Fostex), Karlsonator 12 with Beta10cx (went to 37Hz before LF rolloff), Beta 12LTA - best bass I've heard from that driver, Nirvana Super 10 stamped-frame - wide range - good transients - more lively mids than Beta 10cx.
the original Karlson have their place and sometimes make more sense than the Karlsonator - like using a K12 with subwoofer in place of a midbass horn with sub. A K12 with Pyle pym1298 (Eminence woofer like Kappa12a) topped with a K-tube has a more impressive sound field and attack than my Klipschorns. Of course much different.
if you have ASD1001 on hand - try to make a paper K-tube in size and slot shape like the ones above or this thinwall pvc tube as proof of concept. It might take a few layers of paper to make it stiff.
