this is a NYT article from way back and I thought it might be of use for our cable discussion. Enjoy.
A few highlights:
"experts are in agreement that most cables that claim to improve the sound of audio equipment don't. Even cables costing thousands of dollars per foot are often little more than sonic snake oil, experts say. "
"Polk Audio, a well respected manufacturer of loudspeakers in Baltimore, no longer makes cables but declined an invitation to set up a listening test in its laboratories. One reason it gave was that the test could affect relationships with audio stores. "We would be hearing from every retailer in the country," said Paul Dicomo, communications director for Polk Audio. "
"What we do is kind of dirty and stinky," he said. "We say we are starting with a 12 WAG zip cord, and we position a technician behind each speaker to change the cables out."
The technicians hold up fancy-looking cables before they disappear behind the speakers. The critics debate the sound characteristics of each wire.
"They describe huge changes and they say, 'Oh my God, John, tell me you can hear that difference,'" Mr. Dunlavy said. The trick is the technicians never actually change the cables, he said, adding, "It's the placebo effect."
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/circuits/articles/23down.html
A few highlights:
"experts are in agreement that most cables that claim to improve the sound of audio equipment don't. Even cables costing thousands of dollars per foot are often little more than sonic snake oil, experts say. "
"Polk Audio, a well respected manufacturer of loudspeakers in Baltimore, no longer makes cables but declined an invitation to set up a listening test in its laboratories. One reason it gave was that the test could affect relationships with audio stores. "We would be hearing from every retailer in the country," said Paul Dicomo, communications director for Polk Audio. "
"What we do is kind of dirty and stinky," he said. "We say we are starting with a 12 WAG zip cord, and we position a technician behind each speaker to change the cables out."
The technicians hold up fancy-looking cables before they disappear behind the speakers. The critics debate the sound characteristics of each wire.
"They describe huge changes and they say, 'Oh my God, John, tell me you can hear that difference,'" Mr. Dunlavy said. The trick is the technicians never actually change the cables, he said, adding, "It's the placebo effect."
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/12/circuits/articles/23down.html
Hi,
Now, they do phrase it nicely, don't they? They already assume it has to cost you before it can improve things...
IDIOTS.
POLK Audio hardly makes their own speakers units, let alone cables...Please??????????????
IDIOTS.
IDIOTS.
They must be sooo proud of themselves....
And NO, I am not going to prove anything to anyone, get a life and enjoy it.
Cheers,
Now, they do phrase it nicely, don't they? They already assume it has to cost you before it can improve things...
IDIOTS.
POLK Audio hardly makes their own speakers units, let alone cables...Please??????????????
IDIOTS.
IDIOTS.
They must be sooo proud of themselves....
And NO, I am not going to prove anything to anyone, get a life and enjoy it.
Cheers,
i just dont understand how people can say that cables dont make a difference. i have done SO many swaps on cables and they do make a difference... even when i have forgotten what cables i had in my system, i knew something sounded off, and was adjusting, tweaking and messing with things, until i realized, "oh yeah, i changed the cables last week". then i change them back and its like i remember.
im not even saying i have a golden ear, its sometimes hard for me to tell the difference between sources and amp (of HIGH end), but cables are like night and day to me!
im not even saying i have a golden ear, its sometimes hard for me to tell the difference between sources and amp (of HIGH end), but cables are like night and day to me!
as some of you may know, i sell this crap to pay rent... we just recently got in the new audioquest powered cables. they are amazing! since these came out, i have vowed to not even TRY to understand why cables sound good or bad. they took a normal cable, ran a couple more wires in it, added a battery pack, and OMG, it sounds a LOT better...
i WISH i didnt hear the difference, but i do. so, my next upgrade is going to be almost $1,500 in cables
i WISH i didnt hear the difference, but i do. so, my next upgrade is going to be almost $1,500 in cables
Hi,
Ah, money...Again.
O.K....I am that lucky bloke that can get anything he like manufactured to his liking and vice versa...
Would I part with 1500 USD for a set of cables? No way, Jose!
Why?
Well, I think I can have the same performance from a 15 USD/m
wire that's why.
(15USD a single run of wire on a per meter basis)
In fact it would be a major surprise to me if I couldn't...
Cheers,
Ah, money...Again.
O.K....I am that lucky bloke that can get anything he like manufactured to his liking and vice versa...
Would I part with 1500 USD for a set of cables? No way, Jose!
Why?
Well, I think I can have the same performance from a 15 USD/m
wire that's why.
(15USD a single run of wire on a per meter basis)
In fact it would be a major surprise to me if I couldn't...
Cheers,
Originally posted by fdegrove
Neither do I...How do you prove what you experience ?
You can only state or describe your experience.
Things get interesting however when multiple independant listeners describe their experiences in the same ways.
Mind you, I design quite a few cables but I'm still at a loss why they make a difference...
Is it due to input/output capacitance?
Partly, but that is not the whole story - I can make just about any cable sound good (verified by independant listeners).
It is not just the conductor, or just the geometry, or just the insulations..............or even just all of those.
Is it just because I see through ideal mathemathical models
Ideal models are exactly that, and we all know that models are not the real thing.
Am I that bright?
Of course you are.
Neither do I...How do you prove what you experience ?
You can only state or describe your experience.
Things get interesting however when multiple independant listeners describe their experiences in the same ways.
Mind you, I design quite a few cables but I'm still at a loss why they make a difference...
Is it due to input/output capacitance?
Partly, but that is not the whole story - I can make just about any cable sound good (verified by independant listeners).
It is not just the conductor, or just the geometry, or just the insulations..............or even just all of those.
Is it just because I see through ideal mathemathical models
Ideal models are exactly that, and we all know that models are not the real thing.
Am I that bright?
Of course you are.
I am the lucky bloke who gets his stuff for free (or near free). the interconnects (6 channel analog plus some others) im getting for next to nothing thanks to sony and a few other people. but would i ever spend that on cables? NO! but will i own them and probably stare at them every night before i goto bed, yes
i wish i could make everything i wanted, but i cant. im still very much a novice at this DIY stuff. plus, i just dont have that kinda time. my amps are taking long enough as it is.
i wish i could make everything i wanted, but i cant. im still very much a novice at this DIY stuff. plus, i just dont have that kinda time. my amps are taking long enough as it is.
fdegrove said:Hi,
Ah, money...Again.
O.K....I am that lucky bloke that can get anything he like manufactured to his liking and vice versa...
Would I part with 1500 USD for a set of cables? No way, Jose!
Why?
Well, I think I can have the same performance from a 15 USD/m
wire that's why.
(15USD a single run of wire on a per meter basis)
In fact it would be a major surprise to me if I couldn't...
Cheers,
Re: Ok Steve, Let's Have Some Truths From You........
I perceive differences. But I've no idea whether the differences I perceive are due to any actual audible effects. I do know that it has been well established that we humans may perceive differences even when there are no physical differences. So to that end I don't make huge leaps of illogic and insist that cables cause actual audible differences. Nor do I insist that they don't or they can't.
Unlike many others, I've no ego to stroke or anything else to prove with regard to the differences I perceive. I just take them at face value because at the end of the day, I don't give a rat's sphincter why I may be perceiving the differences.
se
mrfeedback said:
I perceive differences. But I've no idea whether the differences I perceive are due to any actual audible effects. I do know that it has been well established that we humans may perceive differences even when there are no physical differences. So to that end I don't make huge leaps of illogic and insist that cables cause actual audible differences. Nor do I insist that they don't or they can't.
Unlike many others, I've no ego to stroke or anything else to prove with regard to the differences I perceive. I just take them at face value because at the end of the day, I don't give a rat's sphincter why I may be perceiving the differences.
se
nope, that was me...
i was asking what synergistic research is doing with their power cords. we sell thos puppies like they were $19.99. basically, we tell a customer, "try it out. bring it home for free, plug it in, see what you think".
the next day we get a call back, they want like 5 of them... they sell themselves at $425 each! i still havent brough one home yet, but i have to, just to see why people will drop that much on a power cable.
i was asking what synergistic research is doing with their power cords. we sell thos puppies like they were $19.99. basically, we tell a customer, "try it out. bring it home for free, plug it in, see what you think".
the next day we get a call back, they want like 5 of them... they sell themselves at $425 each! i still havent brough one home yet, but i have to, just to see why people will drop that much on a power cable.
Da5id4Vz said:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.