"Every level matched double blind listening test I've read about show no audible difference between expensive and cheap contemporary DACs"
So are they all the same?
You may assume that's none of your ******* business
. I was trying to be helpful and point the designer with "phase noise ... the best on the planet" clocks to an application that would be much more compelling to chase (and optimize for) instead of a poor consumer DAC.Ok guys, unless you decide go back to pataphysics, I will get off my soapbox.
You may assume that's none of your ******* business
Ok guys, unless you decide go back to pataphysics, I will get off my soapbox.
here a good advice/suggestion:
Tie yourself in a few kilos of bubble wrap, keep off any kind of potential harmful object, including MISSILES , go to bed , sleep for a good month or so (you can set up intraveinous fluids, BEFORE the bubble wrap up stage), and then when you wake up, run naked in your neighbourhood and take pictures of yourself to see if you really exist (you can post them here), then you may start thinking about your past life and what could have been done better for the benefit of the DIY community. if ever you don't come back (i doubt it though) we'll all miss you very much, but that may be necessary step to clear your mind.
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You've stated, "I can't accept the claim that DACs are all the same" but now you are asking me if they are all the same. Perhaps your problem is language barrier which made you think that expensive and cheap contemporary DAC tests I've read about means all DACs. I assure you, that's not what it means.
It’s amazing, ultimately you admit you don’t know, but you also just so happen to guess that the problem is one that you coincidentally have a solution for? Lol.
Edit: at this point your personal commercial interest is irrelevant, you seem more personally invested in ANY explanation outside of personal bias and the limitations of hearing than most CEOs are in their companies. This is bias, and just because “not all DACs sound the same” doesn’t mean you’re somehow above psychological bias.
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Perhaps the forum needs a dedicated discussion section for psychoacoustics?
Language barrier as in:
"I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
Alan Greenspan
Your barrier is that you don't know what you write, merely because you copy and paste.
"no audible difference between expensive and cheap contemporary DACs"
This could means 2 or all.
Since you have not specified I assume all.
But please, let me know which DACs you were referring to, at least one expensive and one cheap.
It surely would help, if you could provide some links to these listening tests.
Detailed descriptions of really good experimental designs - well planned and executed - are always needed.
Especially which kind of positive (and negative) controls were used, is interesting.
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I have never claimed I can demonstrate the relationship with measurements or equations.
You have not read carefully.
I have experimented, I have listened and for me it works.
It's more than enough for me, I don't need your validation, I care less than zero.
Mostly from those like you who are not able to replace a resistor, they don't experience anything and just copy and paste what others have written from one thread to another.
And I never said I have invented something, Linn and Guido Tent already did it in the early 90s.
See, you’re wrong about me, I love to tinker. Got it from my dad. But he also taught me that as the returns diminish we are more and more likely to fall prey to our own bias, and that’s why I’m certain you do hear a difference. That’s why you can’t demonstrate the relationship because you can’t properly measure bias in this situation, not in a meaningful way.
Btw, I know you didn’t invent anything
But you certainly have invested in quite a peculiar something.
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So have a number of others, none of whom appear to have much of an idea of the cause and what's more, seem to not even be curious, quite a coincidence.
See, you’re wrong about me, I love to tinker. Got it from my dad. But he also taught me that as the returns diminish we are more and more likely to fall prey to our own bias, and that’s why I’m certain you do hear a difference. That’s why you can’t demonstrate the relationship because you can’t properly measure bias in this situation, not in a meaningful way.
Btw, I know you didn’t invent anything
I still don't know the limit to which the returns diminishes.
Until now I have not yet reached the limit.
More investigations with even better clocks are needed, which is precisely what we will do soon.
And you still don't understand, there is no bias since we have invested in what we believed necessary in order to build the best audio system for ourselves, not for the market.
Oscillators are only a little part of the project, the development is ended since we have reached the best performance as possible.
Now we are investing money and our little free time developing the other part of the audio chain, like FIFO buffer and DAC, then amps and speakers.
Since we are not professionals it will take very long time.
What bias should there be if we do it for ourselves?
......i truly don’t know where to begin if you think there is no bias because you are doing it for yourselves and not the market. That just makes you a true believer rather than cynical.
Btw, it’s really confusing when you say things like, “More investigations with even better clocks are needed, which is precisely what we will do soon,”
And then one sentence later say, “ Oscillators are only a little part of the project, the development is ended.”
Btw, it’s really confusing when you say things like, “More investigations with even better clocks are needed, which is precisely what we will do soon,”
And then one sentence later say, “ Oscillators are only a little part of the project, the development is ended.”
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It seems to me that in this thread there are many people who have difficulty understanding.
I have an idea of the cause although I cannot demonstrate it with a theorem.
And I care less than zero about proving it.
Can you understand we are building an audio system for ourself and not for you?
Just because we share our experience on an audio forum doesn't mean we need your validation about our results.
Again, we care less than zero.
Our goal is listen to music as best as possible.
You can think all is wrong, you are free to follow your own way to reach the same goal.
I never said you shouldn't use an hourglass as the master clock, you are free to do whatever you want.
But please understand once and for all that we don't need your approval.
If you want you can try, otherwise stay with your hourglass and live happy, it's not my problem.
