Hi guys
Just been thinking about the quality of the Minidsp.....
For the dsp to work it takes an analog (or digital) signal then uses a DAC to convert this so it can be processed before the DAC returns it to analog.
And here is my point..... surely the whole process depends on the quality of the minidsp DAC?
So if we have a really whiz bang top of the line DAC feeding the mindsp it can only sound as good as the inbuilt minidsp DAC, correct?
What made me question this was that I tried a direct swap between my current DAC and the minidsp with a flat non eq'd setupo, eg straight through and there was a big changes, sound stage dramatically shrunk and some detail was missing.
Am I correct in thinking that the sound will only be as good as the weakest link in the system, eg the minidsp DAC?..
Cheers for now..
Just been thinking about the quality of the Minidsp.....
For the dsp to work it takes an analog (or digital) signal then uses a DAC to convert this so it can be processed before the DAC returns it to analog.
And here is my point..... surely the whole process depends on the quality of the minidsp DAC?
So if we have a really whiz bang top of the line DAC feeding the mindsp it can only sound as good as the inbuilt minidsp DAC, correct?
What made me question this was that I tried a direct swap between my current DAC and the minidsp with a flat non eq'd setupo, eg straight through and there was a big changes, sound stage dramatically shrunk and some detail was missing.
Am I correct in thinking that the sound will only be as good as the weakest link in the system, eg the minidsp DAC?..
Cheers for now..
Yes of course this is true, although that minidsp DAC might not actually be the weakest link you are introducing totally unnecessary extra conversion with that choice of operation.
As an alternative if you are running digital sources you could omit the DAC and choose one of the minidsp products accepting a digital input instead. If you want to keep the DAC you might choose one of their models offering both digital input and digital output, which can then be fed to your DAC.
As an alternative if you are running digital sources you could omit the DAC and choose one of the minidsp products accepting a digital input instead. If you want to keep the DAC you might choose one of their models offering both digital input and digital output, which can then be fed to your DAC.
In general, I think this is a furfie. You need to look at the overall result. I can't imagine anybody would put a DSP unit (of any kind) their system and then listen to it without using any of its features (EQ, crossover etc).
Also and FWIW, miniDSP have about a thousand different products. "miniDSP" is the company not the product.
🙂 HTH 🙂
The reason I put the minidsp in the system without using any EQ was to see if there was any impact on sound quality, and yes there was. With this configuration it was basically just a DAC so it was easy to compare to my normal DAC. From what I understand most of the minidsp products use the same DAC configuration.
I have the minidsp that takes digital input from my source.
Will pursue passive a crossover a bit more now I know the difference.
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
I have the minidsp that takes digital input from my source.
Will pursue passive a crossover a bit more now I know the difference.
Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
If you want better sound quality, you can use the Minisharc kit, and add an I2S DAC like one of the Twisted Pear offerings.
Johan-Kr
Johan-Kr
Every time I have tried to use these DSP with their digital input, the sound has been bad. Using analogue in and out has been decent however. Must be the SRC that isn't up to par.
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MiniDSP 4x10 HD Performance Measurements.
a set of measurements Tomchr did on the miniDSP. Doesn't look at all shabby to be. Given you can have a setup where you use the miniDSP to do its magic and then an external set of DACs to convert, any audiophilia nervosa can be assuaged.
But if you have your system gain balance out a DSP is a good way to mess things up.
a set of measurements Tomchr did on the miniDSP. Doesn't look at all shabby to be. Given you can have a setup where you use the miniDSP to do its magic and then an external set of DACs to convert, any audiophilia nervosa can be assuaged.
But if you have your system gain balance out a DSP is a good way to mess things up.
I have a Minidsp 2x4 HD laying around. I tried it with usb input as a dac, not the best sound IMO. I then mod it bypassing the opamp at output stage with just a capacitor and it was better, but still can't compare with a better AKM dac. The 2x4HD uses a lower end AKM AK4626 dac.
Another problem with the small size and price is it tends to use sub optimal power supply, in this case the newer Ti switcher which regulates and spits several voltages with one IC.
I know you didn't mean it but that smacks of you not 'believing' it could sound good due to the chip, so it didn't. I would be interested to know if anyone has grafted a curryman ESS DAC onto their HD. It's on my long term list to try, but short term any small loss in the DAC will be minimal compared to the benefits of active speakers 🙂
If you want to stick with miniDSP brand, you can use their NanoDigi8, with no DAC. 1 input and 4 outputs, all digital.
Works fine, but you need either digital amps or several good DACs
Works fine, but you need either digital amps or several good DACs
To me, 2x4 sounds transparent. Remember the volume must be equal to 0.1 dB
The big advantage of analog in/out DSP solution is the one master clock serving the A/D, DSP and D/A
The big advantage of analog in/out DSP solution is the one master clock serving the A/D, DSP and D/A
This still uses a minidsp DAC, the analog input signal goes through a DAC or in this case an Analog to Digital Converter to get a digital signal it can manipulate before going back through the DAC to get an analog output.
To remove this DAC process I might try a good active crossover to remain in the analog world. Will loose some of the eq features but then..... audiophiles have lived without it for many years.
I used to think like you on that, and was hell bent on using miniDSP to optimise the cross-over then build an analog version with the same transfer function. But then I realised there is so much you can go in miniDSP that is just a pita in analog that you would end up with a suboptimal solution.
But I would not argue with anyone who used DSP for rapid prototyping if that's what they prefer.
But I would not argue with anyone who used DSP for rapid prototyping if that's what they prefer.
This is also true for Hypex DLCP. I didn't like it dig in. Ana-Ana is good. And I believe its the reson you mention + no SRC (sample rate conversion).
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This depends on what your source is.
If you have a digital source, the signal wil remain in the digital domain all from the source through the nanoDigi and until it reaches whatever kind of DACs you have on the outputs.
The only way you need an to convert from an analog signa, is if you need to connect an analog source like a turntable. (Or you for some reason want the extra conversion step.
Oh, and please don't mix acronyms.
If you have an analog signal and want a digital signal, you need an analog to digital converter - an ADC.
If you have a digital signal and want an analog signal, you need a digital to analog converter - a DAC.
Johan-Kr
O so sorry!
Forget acronyms, minidsp does its work in the digital realm so whatever the input it must go through conversion. If its a digital input, it processes in the digital format then does through a DAC for output to the amp. If its an analog input it has to go through a ADC first, then be digitally processed before finally going through the DAC for output to the amp.
This is my point all along, its only as good as the DAC in the minidsp.
When the signal originates in the digital domain, it has to go through a DAC, no matter what.
The MiniDSP nanoDigi has no built-in DACs. You have to supply those yourself as a standalone solution.
Johan-Kr
The MiniDSP nanoDigi has no built-in DACs. You have to supply those yourself as a standalone solution.
Johan-Kr
I discover the follow-up of my post this morning...
of course nanodigi8 has no kind of ADC nor DAC inside ! it's digital all the way through.
Meaning, if you want to be optimal and to remain digital, the best competing solution is to have a professionnal all digital soundcard (for example RME AES) and use digital software filtering (example : Acourate), and software convolution between sound and software FIR filters. Several players do that, like Foobar, JRiver, AcourateConvolver or Brutefir and Ecasound for Linux.
Probably better in overall quality than Nanodigi8, but so many factors must be taken in account that comparison is very difficult (my own experience, I tried both ways...)
of course nanodigi8 has no kind of ADC nor DAC inside ! it's digital all the way through.
Meaning, if you want to be optimal and to remain digital, the best competing solution is to have a professionnal all digital soundcard (for example RME AES) and use digital software filtering (example : Acourate), and software convolution between sound and software FIR filters. Several players do that, like Foobar, JRiver, AcourateConvolver or Brutefir and Ecasound for Linux.
Probably better in overall quality than Nanodigi8, but so many factors must be taken in account that comparison is very difficult (my own experience, I tried both ways...)
Remember Asrc is worse than any audio adc-dac on modern mastered recordings
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...re-detect-0dbfs-waveforms-overload-times.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...re-detect-0dbfs-waveforms-overload-times.html
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