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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
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Old 26th November 2020, 11:51 AM   #3321
Thom is offline Thom  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basillus View Post
Hi Thom.
Where do you see that there is just missing 5 of each?

In the TWTMC_Summary of Orders I can see there is 3 orders at a SC 25MHz crystal and zero at a AT25MHz crystal. I don`t need 7 SC 25MHz or else I have ordered it ;o) maybe 2-3...
Hi Bassilus,

I added the 3 SC with the 2 AIO 6.00/6.25 (because they will also be used for 24/25). So in the end we can agree on the same alternative so 3+2 = 5

I think there is a good chance we will reach at least 10..I might order an extra 24/25 if we are at 9..
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Old 26th November 2020, 12:09 PM   #3322
andrea_mori is online now andrea_mori  Italy
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basillus View Post
Hi euro21. Who do you ask ;0)
The problem with SC6.25, AT6.25, AT6.00 is that the way to reach MOQ are longer, because theirs MOQ is 15. So in this moment I just see that SC25MHz with MOQ 10 is possible to reach, because there just need 7 more to order.
If there haven’t got a MOQ at the crystals, I have ordered the best solution a SC6.25MHz, the TWTMC-DRIXO-SF board, the TWTMC-DRIXO-XFMR 22-24 MHz and the TWTMC-SFDO.
Just a clarification, the TWTMC-PXO-AIO works with AT-Cut crystals only (5.6448, 6.00, 6.144, 6.25 and 6.75 MHz).

So if you would use SC-Cut to get 25MHz the only chance is the base oscillator with the crystal at 25MHz (MOQ is 10 pcs).

Unless you would use a couple of frequency doubler with crystal at 6.00 or 6.25MHz, but the MOQ is 15 pcs.
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Old 28th November 2020, 10:27 AM   #3323
karahana is offline karahana  Russian Federation
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I am using different dacs TDA1541, Es9038 by Ian, DSC1 (and AK4499 or DDDAC next year) clocking with JLsounds board with NDK 45/49. BBB as the source.
My audio files are mainly 44.1, 96 and 192. Normally I try to upsample to 192 or dsd 256 with HQplayer as it works really well this way.
I fell out of my projects for quite some time. So I need to reread quite a lot of the threads as I feel to miss something.
I guess Andrea needs to complete the GB so I would really appreciate some advice.

1.
I understand that to play files up to 192 I need 22/24 Mhz SC-cut.
If I am correct from the graphs it seems that 11.2896 with doubler is very close to the 5.6448 x2 x2
If not 5/6 with or without doubler is the best.
Or 5.56448 for 44.1 and 12.2880 for 96/192?

2.
ES9038 is sensitive to MCLK, DSD to BCLK and pcm1704 to WCLK… Feel a bit confused here…


3.
I also heard that big companies use different frequencies to get certain sound signature. Is it just a yellow button?

4.
2x TWTMC-DRIXO-SF (the board)
5.6448 / 12.2880 SC-cut
TWTMC-DBM-SF (doubler )
TWTMC-STS-SX OR DX (yet do define)
TWRPS-pp to power everything

Do I miss something?
Will I be able to get some stuff in January or it is better to take options now as the new GB is unknown?
Thanks a lot!
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Old 28th November 2020, 11:56 AM   #3324
andrea_mori is online now andrea_mori  Italy
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
1) To get 22/24 MHz the New Driscoll oscillator TWTMC-DRIXO with crystals at 5/6 MHz followed by a couple of frequency doublers TWTMC-DBM is the best option but also the most expensive. The New Driscoll oscillator TWTMC-DRIXO with crystals at 11/12 MHz followed by one frequency doubler TWTMC-DBM is very close. The New Driscoll oscillator TWTMC-DRIXO with crystals at 22/24 MHz without any frequency doubler is the cheapest option and performs very well (-130dBc at 10Hz from the carrier while the Crystek for example is -97dBc)

2) It's true that different kind of DAC are sensitive to different clock signals, but this has not much to do with the oscillators, the XOs are the base timing devices but the clock signals for the DAC are generated via the front-end (or a FIFO). For example with our new FIFO Lite (as soon as it will be ready) you can play 176/192 KHz materials with the TDA1541A using 5/6 MHz master clock (the best oscillators available) and the WCLK (the most crucial signal for this DAC) is generated outside the FPGA logic, it comes directly from the master clock. The Sabre is another thing, it should be sensitive to the MCLK but I have not yet understood if you can disable the DPLL that could vanish the performance of the XOs.

3) You could try different frequencies, I cannot say about the results, but of course it becomes very very expensive.

4) The items you have listed are right, I believe the choice is between XOs at base frequencies (22/24 MHz) and XOs at lower frequencies (5/6 or 11/12 MHz) followed by one or two doublers.

I would close the GB as soon as possible, next week I will start collecting the payments.
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Old 28th November 2020, 12:13 PM   #3325
dddac is online now dddac  Germany
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
Andrea, so generating a master-wordclock from the 5/6 MHz master clock requires a divider I assume. I am interested in how you do this with minimum additional jitter effect?
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Old 28th November 2020, 01:21 PM   #3326
andrea_mori is online now andrea_mori  Italy
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
With AC family CMOS synchronous binary counter in the FIFO Lite while for the top version we are experimenting several ways for the best phase noise performance (ECL, regenerative dividers and mixed topology).

But the most important key is that the WCLK is well isolated from the crap coming from the FPGA logic, this avoids crosstalk and any other modulation between clock signals.
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Old 28th November 2020, 03:49 PM   #3327
bisesik is offline bisesik  Kazakhstan
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea_mori View Post
...For example with our new FIFO Lite (as soon as it will be ready) you can play 176/192 KHz materials with the TDA1541A using 5/6 MHz master clock ...
Hello Andrea,
will it be possible to play 352/384 kHz with your FIFO at 11/12MHz master clock (question relates to TDA1541A) as well? Thanks!
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Old 28th November 2020, 04:07 PM   #3328
andrea_mori is online now andrea_mori  Italy
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
Yes, with the TDA1541A in simultaneous mode.
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:15 PM   #3329
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Hi,
you meant the FiFo light will perform also simultaneaous mode as well as I2S ?
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Old 28th November 2020, 05:29 PM   #3330
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
Yes.
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