fts=favourite track selection. You can store your favourite tracks for a lot of cd's. Player stores them and recogises the cd next time. In the 650 a separate controller is used to handle this.
As for the motorola way, had a quick look in the service manual of the cd880, which uses 68hc11. Two problems: protocol is different, not i2c towards keys and it's a controller with onboard rom. Expensive player anyway. Not shure if a player exists with external rom; dead end.
Actually you can select e.g. track 9 in stop position on any player. Press next nine times and then hit play. The message to the mab on the main pcb should be the same as if hitting button 9 and then play. So you probably don't need a player with a keypad for numbers (?).
And I don't think you need a player with exactly that pcb. Just a player with i2c/i2d communication from the right time (so with cdm2 or cdm4). So with a curved hole in the cd drawer.
Have a look around where you live (second hand shops) with what you can find and then post some numbers here. Good chance somebody here has the servicemanual and knows if it's good or not.
As for the motorola way, had a quick look in the service manual of the cd880, which uses 68hc11. Two problems: protocol is different, not i2c towards keys and it's a controller with onboard rom. Expensive player anyway. Not shure if a player exists with external rom; dead end.
Actually you can select e.g. track 9 in stop position on any player. Press next nine times and then hit play. The message to the mab on the main pcb should be the same as if hitting button 9 and then play. So you probably don't need a player with a keypad for numbers (?).
And I don't think you need a player with exactly that pcb. Just a player with i2c/i2d communication from the right time (so with cdm2 or cdm4). So with a curved hole in the cd drawer.
Have a look around where you live (second hand shops) with what you can find and then post some numbers here. Good chance somebody here has the servicemanual and knows if it's good or not.
Yes, that idea occurred to me too. There is only one Philips CD player available, a CD104. Sounds like an early model and might be okay. Couldn't find an online sevice manual to confirm. Do you or any readers have access to a manual to check the pcb layout?
If it's close to the CD640 (or CD650 or CD660) then it's the one I need to further my work.
Regards,
ramchip
If it's close to the CD640 (or CD650 or CD660) then it's the one I need to further my work.
Regards,
ramchip
104 is older, 14 bit machine with cdm0 or 1. But it does use only two MAB84XX controllers with i2c/i2d bus. Apart from them, there's a serial to parallel chip on the bus (cmos hef4094).
This will be more difficult to keep running, as the pbc's give problems (search here). Allthough older, it might be enough for your needs. Maybe if it's really cheap.
As for the service manual, send me a pm 😉
Actually got one of those, and a b&o cd-x which is based on the 104.
This will be more difficult to keep running, as the pbc's give problems (search here). Allthough older, it might be enough for your needs. Maybe if it's really cheap.
As for the service manual, send me a pm 😉
Actually got one of those, and a b&o cd-x which is based on the 104.
I've been reading reviews of the CD104 on the net, and they are all good. There seems to be quite a lot of nostalgia for the old kit.
What is the hef4094 doing in that machine? Will it still work if I were to unhook that chip from the I2C bus?
I know about the thro-hole plating problem, that doesn't bother me. This might be the way to go, get the CD104 for experimentation!
I've sent you a quick e-mail from this website.
Regards,
ramchip
What is the hef4094 doing in that machine? Will it still work if I were to unhook that chip from the I2C bus?
I know about the thro-hole plating problem, that doesn't bother me. This might be the way to go, get the CD104 for experimentation!
I've sent you a quick e-mail from this website.
Regards,
ramchip
Andy! Please would you be kind enough to upload the CD160 PCB layout to the yourfilelink website?
I'm getting this model soon, and it would be a great help!
Regards,
ramchip
I'm getting this model soon, and it would be a great help!
Regards,
ramchip
Re: Re: Old Philips DAC module - info. required.
Guido, interesting mention of this chip: does a HEF4094 allow us to make a discrete DAC?
albert
guido said:
Guido, interesting mention of this chip: does a HEF4094 allow us to make a discrete DAC?
albert
Re: Re: Old Philips DAC module - info. required.
Too bad. I would like to know if there are chips readily availaible to sort a series and bus feed to a parallel bit/by/bit schema. I understand from schematics like the TDA1541 that such a device must be called something like a shift register. . . because the (active) divider does the actual current sourcing.
albert
rfbrw said:
Too bad. I would like to know if there are chips readily availaible to sort a series and bus feed to a parallel bit/by/bit schema. I understand from schematics like the TDA1541 that such a device must be called something like a shift register. . . because the (active) divider does the actual current sourcing.
albert
Re: Re: Re: Old Philips DAC module - info. required.
Forum search engine. Term 'Discrete DAC'.
triode_al said:
Forum search engine. Term 'Discrete DAC'.
MAB8441 COMMAND PROTOCOL
I am surprised that some people need the same protocol that i need.
I work arround this because i want to make an upgrade kit for old cdm4 and use the cdpro2 from philips
now it's impossible to obtain any information about this protocol from philips
So i've buy an eagle I2C analyser and i've check the data command for the cdm4
There's a lot of things that a don't understand, but i've just understand the time that is running.
Does somebody have made some progress in that ??
I am surprised that some people need the same protocol that i need.
I work arround this because i want to make an upgrade kit for old cdm4 and use the cdpro2 from philips
now it's impossible to obtain any information about this protocol from philips
So i've buy an eagle I2C analyser and i've check the data command for the cdm4
There's a lot of things that a don't understand, but i've just understand the time that is running.
Does somebody have made some progress in that ??
MAB8441 firmware
Hello MADSYSTEMES, yes I have made progress since my last post. The CD160 has been cracked, i.e. analysed to the extent that I understand how the track number is sent to the CDM in that model of Philips player. Note that the CD160 mechanism is of the sliding tray type. This was achieved using a PIC 16F877A and my home-brew bit-bashing technique.
I tried using similar code on the target system which has the MAB chip but a different style of CDM, it has a lid that is raised by a motor. This one has not been cracked as yet. The expected codes do not appear to be
present, indicating that the MAB firmware is different.
On my ‘scope the I2C bus structure used by MAB is different to modern standards so I would be surprised if a current analyser gives meaningful results on the old kit.
However, if you find the track info for the MAB I’m working with please let me know!
In the meantime, good luck with your project.
Regards, ramchip
Hello MADSYSTEMES, yes I have made progress since my last post. The CD160 has been cracked, i.e. analysed to the extent that I understand how the track number is sent to the CDM in that model of Philips player. Note that the CD160 mechanism is of the sliding tray type. This was achieved using a PIC 16F877A and my home-brew bit-bashing technique.
I tried using similar code on the target system which has the MAB chip but a different style of CDM, it has a lid that is raised by a motor. This one has not been cracked as yet. The expected codes do not appear to be
present, indicating that the MAB firmware is different.
On my ‘scope the I2C bus structure used by MAB is different to modern standards so I would be surprised if a current analyser gives meaningful results on the old kit.
However, if you find the track info for the MAB I’m working with please let me know!
In the meantime, good luck with your project.
Regards, ramchip
First of all, i'am very happy to see that you've got somegood competence.
If you want i can tell you what i know about the cdm4 products.
I am the boss of the service center in Paris,Bang &Olufsen have used a lot of cdm4 and i have a very good experience in all the models.I can tell you that the protocol used to work with pcb decoder are the same.I mean that they have the same basis.
I've capture some i2c datas with analyser that memorise it on computer.So i can capture for hours of play back.
After that i have all for doing prototypes and for work with 16f876a, emulator etc..
But tell me what do you want to do with this protocol?
What are the application?
perhaps it's better to talk in Private message.
Regards Carlo
If you want i can tell you what i know about the cdm4 products.
I am the boss of the service center in Paris,Bang &Olufsen have used a lot of cdm4 and i have a very good experience in all the models.I can tell you that the protocol used to work with pcb decoder are the same.I mean that they have the same basis.
I've capture some i2c datas with analyser that memorise it on computer.So i can capture for hours of play back.
After that i have all for doing prototypes and for work with 16f876a, emulator etc..
But tell me what do you want to do with this protocol?
What are the application?
perhaps it's better to talk in Private message.
Regards Carlo
I will build transport based on Philips CD584 (CDM4/19, SAA7210, SAA7220, TDA1541A). Transformer (new toroid) will go in separate box, and vfd display will be replaced by blue 7-segment or matrix led. Also, any Sony/Philips remote will be used to control the device.
Original keyboard/vfd/IR front board will be replaced with my own. uC will be used for new display/IR control and I2C communication with CD uC (MC68HC05C8).
So, right now, on the original I2C bus are only 2 devices, MC68HC05C8 (uC) and TMS3763 (VFD driver). uC send to driver 2 times 6 bytes (display segment info), and after this read 3 bytes (keyboard matrix).
[01110000(1)00100010(1)00000110(1)00100010(1)01111111(1)11110111(1)]
[01110000(1)00101010(1)00100000(1)01001100(1)00101110(1)10110111(1)]
[01110001(1)10000001(1)00000000(1)]
In the first byte, there is DeviceID=7 (4 bits) Adress=0 (3-bits) and last bit is R/W. After this is ack bit, and other bytes with info. If someone have datasheet for vfd driver TMS3763, everything will be clear. If not, checking bit by bit, reverse engineering...
Original keyboard/vfd/IR front board will be replaced with my own. uC will be used for new display/IR control and I2C communication with CD uC (MC68HC05C8).
So, right now, on the original I2C bus are only 2 devices, MC68HC05C8 (uC) and TMS3763 (VFD driver). uC send to driver 2 times 6 bytes (display segment info), and after this read 3 bytes (keyboard matrix).
[01110000(1)00100010(1)00000110(1)00100010(1)01111111(1)11110111(1)]
[01110000(1)00101010(1)00100000(1)01001100(1)00101110(1)10110111(1)]
[01110001(1)10000001(1)00000000(1)]
In the first byte, there is DeviceID=7 (4 bits) Adress=0 (3-bits) and last bit is R/W. After this is ack bit, and other bytes with info. If someone have datasheet for vfd driver TMS3763, everything will be clear. If not, checking bit by bit, reverse engineering...
From what i can remember when looking at a similar device in a CD80: 4-bit and programmable.
So you need a pre-programmed part to replace one. I'm afraid the datasheet won't help, as it does not explain the program inside.
So you need a pre-programmed part to replace one. I'm afraid the datasheet won't help, as it does not explain the program inside.
Found the datasheet of the part in the cd80; a different beast.
Also see that there's a 3763 in a cd650 schematic with the internal block diagram. No rom, so the datasheet should be enough. But can't help there.
Also see that there's a 3763 in a cd650 schematic with the internal block diagram. No rom, so the datasheet should be enough. But can't help there.
All vfd drivers in older philips CD players (in this case tms3763/u3090mg) are uC. Block diagram of tms3763 from CD852 service manual confuse me, but it is uC for sure (Vpp pin).
Reverse engineering process is finished. PC was used as I2C master (over LPT), for sending data to cd player front board, turning on/off each segment, and decoding keyboard. I was rigth in last post regarding the MC68HC05C8/TMS3763 communication. Last 4 bytes in two write commands are for on/off display segment (58 bits, 6 bits unused). Last 2 bytes in read command are presed key values.
Reverse engineering process is finished. PC was used as I2C master (over LPT), for sending data to cd player front board, turning on/off each segment, and decoding keyboard. I was rigth in last post regarding the MC68HC05C8/TMS3763 communication. Last 4 bytes in two write commands are for on/off display segment (58 bits, 6 bits unused). Last 2 bytes in read command are presed key values.
hi josiphal:
I have done test u3090¡®s display code and your results different .my results Consistent the Block diagram of tfk-u3090mg from CD50 service manual.
can u send the reverse engineeing program and schematic circuit to me? thank you so much!
Regards,
koko
email:cuteykoko@hotmail.com
I have done test u3090¡®s display code and your results different .my results Consistent the Block diagram of tfk-u3090mg from CD50 service manual.
can u send the reverse engineeing program and schematic circuit to me? thank you so much!
Regards,
koko
email:cuteykoko@hotmail.com
For reverse engineeing process is used PC with parallel port and simple program for collecting samples and start/stop recognition. I2C signal frequency was about 40kHz, so parallel port speed wasn't problem.
First, only monitoring communication between MC68HC05C8 (uC) and TMS3763 (VFD driver), with I2C lines connected to parallel port input pins...
[01110000(1)00100010(1)00000110(1)00100010(1)01111111(1)11110111(1)]
[01110000(1)00101010(1)00100000(1)01001100(1)00101110(1)10110111(1)]
[01110001(1)10000001(1)00000000(1)]
And after this, replacing MC68HC05C8 with PC, to recognize I2C message bits and VFD segments relation, with I2C lines connected to parallel port output pins by oc.
For me TMS3763 (VFD driver) is not important (is it uC or not), because it will be replaced with new display. For me is only important I2C data transfer, and now I know for what is used every bit in message.
This is the case for CD852, and if the story with other models is similar, or something completely different I don't know.
First, only monitoring communication between MC68HC05C8 (uC) and TMS3763 (VFD driver), with I2C lines connected to parallel port input pins...
[01110000(1)00100010(1)00000110(1)00100010(1)01111111(1)11110111(1)]
[01110000(1)00101010(1)00100000(1)01001100(1)00101110(1)10110111(1)]
[01110001(1)10000001(1)00000000(1)]
And after this, replacing MC68HC05C8 with PC, to recognize I2C message bits and VFD segments relation, with I2C lines connected to parallel port output pins by oc.
For me TMS3763 (VFD driver) is not important (is it uC or not), because it will be replaced with new display. For me is only important I2C data transfer, and now I know for what is used every bit in message.
This is the case for CD852, and if the story with other models is similar, or something completely different I don't know.
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