I don't think it is a good idea to form one's opinion concerning low-bit or high bit converters based on MSB's shtick. I've had the chance of doing measurements on the MSB tech converter some time ago when visiting a customer who had both the converter and an AP handy. It was extremely disappointing. Never seen a richer distortion spectrum. The distortion roughly tracks the signal level, rising by 6dB every time the signal starts "using another bit" and so it looks a bit like a staircase following the signal level around 80dB down. Because of this, it scores brilliantly on a traditional low level linearity test while at the same time having linearity of no better than 13 bits below the signal level. A triumph of philosophy over fact.
edit: I also worry about the SRC on the ESS not being defeatable (if it is the same one I tested 4 years ago it's not that great) but it becomes transparent if you lock all clocks together. The filters are programmable. But I wish they'd made just the back end available directly. Anyhow, if you look at some of the older and cheaper DAC chips, there's some serious performance to be had as well. Just look at the plots in the AD1955 data sheets (and imagine it's made with the rather ramshackle application circuit from the same data sheet and that they actually measure the whole signal instead of just the distortion residual).
edit: I also worry about the SRC on the ESS not being defeatable (if it is the same one I tested 4 years ago it's not that great) but it becomes transparent if you lock all clocks together. The filters are programmable. But I wish they'd made just the back end available directly. Anyhow, if you look at some of the older and cheaper DAC chips, there's some serious performance to be had as well. Just look at the plots in the AD1955 data sheets (and imagine it's made with the rather ramshackle application circuit from the same data sheet and that they actually measure the whole signal instead of just the distortion residual).
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Not Entirely Accurate...
Mr PP: I used to work for PS Audio, and am intimately aware of how they do business and design products. Your assertion that they have no engineering department, and do not actually design their own electronics is not true in any way. PS Audio has at least three full time degreed engineers on staff, and Paul McGowan is also a talented analog low level circuit designer.
It is true that PS Audio does hire outside consultants sometimes, to help with the developement of products which they lack the expertise for in house (most notably, recently, the PerfectWave Transport memory player, and the Network Bridge Ethernet streamer), but they design their own power supplies, DAC circuitry, analog stages, and power conditioners. They are not a marketing and industrial design company, they are an engineering based audio company.
before getting the Confidence's I had planned to build Zaph's ZD5 but what made me not to was this lack of reports.
OTOH look at my report in the multi-way section, after my friend built the Seas Idunn project. I was as frank as I could be (my only involvement was building the XO's) and I compared them with a commercial system in the same price range. but TBH I wish I kept my mouth shut. but if it were about this we'd see some NCORE's for sale already (I wish...)
what is really really funny about these types is that they can't get right even the most basic stuff even the die hard subjectivist can't argue about, like SNR and channel separation. my favorites are 47labs and Audio Note. I'm always delighted to read about the "5 mm signal path" and then look at the channel separation graph boasting an impressive 40dB
one local company is doing some OEM stuff for the likes of MSB Tech and PS Audio and knowing the owner I have some insights on this. some "high end" makers are basically case designers with a marketing department, all actual electronic design being outsourced. and to avoid any useless discussion, I'll add the disclaimer that I'm not talking the two names that I mentioned above, reportedly they actually do have strong engineering departments.
so is there a chance that we actually read a third report tomorrow?
Mr PP: I used to work for PS Audio, and am intimately aware of how they do business and design products. Your assertion that they have no engineering department, and do not actually design their own electronics is not true in any way. PS Audio has at least three full time degreed engineers on staff, and Paul McGowan is also a talented analog low level circuit designer.
It is true that PS Audio does hire outside consultants sometimes, to help with the developement of products which they lack the expertise for in house (most notably, recently, the PerfectWave Transport memory player, and the Network Bridge Ethernet streamer), but they design their own power supplies, DAC circuitry, analog stages, and power conditioners. They are not a marketing and industrial design company, they are an engineering based audio company.
Barrows
I think Push_pull already covered himself on that
I think Push_pull already covered himself on that
Yay, mine has shipped now
And the package weight is just silly... weight is 0.8 kg for a SMPS and 2 modules with package and everything. That isn't even a quarter of the weight of the transformer in one of my monoblocks :O
I hope they are much better than the ones I have now... would sure be way more convenient in size and weight
And the package weight is just silly... weight is 0.8 kg for a SMPS and 2 modules with package and everything. That isn't even a quarter of the weight of the transformer in one of my monoblocks :O
I hope they are much better than the ones I have now... would sure be way more convenient in size and weight
No. Have never owned or listened to UcD's. I will be comparing them to the Atma-Sphere OTLs, Hephaestus (high end Class D monblocks), Class D Audio SDS-224 (a pretty decent kit Class D kit), Pass Labs XA30.5 and Clayton M300's (one of the very best amps I've heard).
My speakers are Geddes Abbeys which are a two way controlled directivity monitor with 12" compression driver loaded waveguide with foam insert and 12" pro woofer. They are 95db efficient and extremely resolving and dynamic. My source is a Metric Halo LIO8 pro DAC/PRE interfaced via FireWire to a Mac Mini.
My speakers are Geddes Abbeys which are a two way controlled directivity monitor with 12" compression driver loaded waveguide with foam insert and 12" pro woofer. They are 95db efficient and extremely resolving and dynamic. My source is a Metric Halo LIO8 pro DAC/PRE interfaced via FireWire to a Mac Mini.
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Bruno,
Any reason not to put three amps in one chassis?
Can't wait to read your report!
I heard A-S' 200W OTL at CES and also auditioned the 30W stereo at home on suitable speaker load. The OTL is superb on the right load of course. Interestingly, I also later heard/owned Linn's Majik 3100 (3x 100W @ 4 Ohms), which reminded me very much of the OTL minus the OTL's current limitations. Linn's Chakra architecture is superb: a pure analog monolithic chip with bipolar transistors at the output to increase current, a chip version of Quad's "current dumping" architecture.
Do you guys cut your own chassis holes? I left my drill press behind when I last moved. Is punching the holes better? Cost for punch?
Any reason not to put three amps in one chassis?
Can't wait to read your report!
I heard A-S' 200W OTL at CES and also auditioned the 30W stereo at home on suitable speaker load. The OTL is superb on the right load of course. Interestingly, I also later heard/owned Linn's Majik 3100 (3x 100W @ 4 Ohms), which reminded me very much of the OTL minus the OTL's current limitations. Linn's Chakra architecture is superb: a pure analog monolithic chip with bipolar transistors at the output to increase current, a chip version of Quad's "current dumping" architecture.
Do you guys cut your own chassis holes? I left my drill press behind when I last moved. Is punching the holes better? Cost for punch?
Yea - just to follow trea....
Hi to all!!
Interrested as always in new things I wanted to be informed as the rest of you - as I have finished an amplifier from ClassDAudio: the SDS 254 kit which was VERY good and easy to get up and running. Sound is superb and getting better. Now I have a B1buffer up and running(waiting for better caps). All sound is even greater!!!
And I have started to collect pieces for the LÀmp with the SK82 - which will be finishe in the course of the year!
But the ClassD is so easy - green - revealing - functional - you name it.....
So - if my A-class don`t get me to where I want to be soundwise, I maybe will build a ClassD. And my choise will be among the Hypex N-core; the NewClassD(which is very expensive); or maybe a new ClassDAudio(which really got a nice product).
So when I listen to Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms(remastered) I wonder - where is the next good project?
Best to all - and hope life will give us opportunities to some time to fullfill our buildings.
Olav
Hi to all!!
Interrested as always in new things I wanted to be informed as the rest of you - as I have finished an amplifier from ClassDAudio: the SDS 254 kit which was VERY good and easy to get up and running. Sound is superb and getting better. Now I have a B1buffer up and running(waiting for better caps). All sound is even greater!!!
And I have started to collect pieces for the LÀmp with the SK82 - which will be finishe in the course of the year!
But the ClassD is so easy - green - revealing - functional - you name it.....
So - if my A-class don`t get me to where I want to be soundwise, I maybe will build a ClassD. And my choise will be among the Hypex N-core; the NewClassD(which is very expensive); or maybe a new ClassDAudio(which really got a nice product).
So when I listen to Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms(remastered) I wonder - where is the next good project?
Best to all - and hope life will give us opportunities to some time to fullfill our buildings.
Olav
no report after 9 hours...
now is there a possibility that all NCORE owners are abducted by aliens? it would explain a lot of things.
Poor MSB have been ridiculed enough for that Sabre-bashing article, give them a break!
Posting an article that can only mean you're ignorant or really worried your competitor's product is better while providing free advertising to said competitor, is one very effective way to shoot yourself in the foot.
I'll give them that.
Posting an article that can only mean you're ignorant or really worried your competitor's product is better while providing free advertising to said competitor, is one very effective way to shoot yourself in the foot.
I'll give them that.
after a deeper look at their website I don't think they deserve a breakPoor MSB have been ridiculed enough for that Sabre-bashing article, give them a break!
Posting an article that can only mean you're ignorant or really worried your competitor's product is better while providing free advertising to said competitor, is one very effective way to shoot yourself in the foot.
I'll give them that.
I looked at one video and that made me sorry I brought up the name... I haven't seen anything so cheap since the last time I accidentally stopped on the shopping channel while zapping.- Status
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