As I life in the east of germoney, Eternas are the most offered and cheapest classical LP here.
Shortly ago, in Leipzig, I was on my way to visit two record stores and one of them had a box of Eterna's outside for free offer. I picked eight classical records for nothing, all near mint, one I had to throw away because it was misused. Eternas are to find everywhere and nobody seem to want them, usually I pick them up for one Euro each at a thrift store but even that isn't real cheap.
Comparing the sound, it seems that every label had their own sound signature.
I can life with all of them, but of course, some are better sounding than others. Some RCA LM or LSC are outstanding, others are bad. Thats with every label.
If an audio system is really top notch level, it could manage to make even the most bad recording sound at least a little interesting and lifelike. Not like a good record, but mostly listenable without listener fatigue. Thats what I get when it comes to new pop records. Most of them are overproduced, and mixed so that they sound good on cheap audio systems with small boom boxes. Tone colors are totally faded out due to bad mixing electronics and bad mixing preferences.
As I can choose between some grades of MC systems, there are big differences, even with the one Ortofon system in use with me. There is a system I like best, but this is a tuned one, not regulary in sale anymore. The closer it comes to the front end of a system, the more changes are strongly audible.
That may be on both ends, even when it comes to speakers changes can alter the sound drastically but a good or bad MC system changes everything at the source of the analog signal.
Shortly ago, in Leipzig, I was on my way to visit two record stores and one of them had a box of Eterna's outside for free offer. I picked eight classical records for nothing, all near mint, one I had to throw away because it was misused. Eternas are to find everywhere and nobody seem to want them, usually I pick them up for one Euro each at a thrift store but even that isn't real cheap.
Comparing the sound, it seems that every label had their own sound signature.
I can life with all of them, but of course, some are better sounding than others. Some RCA LM or LSC are outstanding, others are bad. Thats with every label.
If an audio system is really top notch level, it could manage to make even the most bad recording sound at least a little interesting and lifelike. Not like a good record, but mostly listenable without listener fatigue. Thats what I get when it comes to new pop records. Most of them are overproduced, and mixed so that they sound good on cheap audio systems with small boom boxes. Tone colors are totally faded out due to bad mixing electronics and bad mixing preferences.
As I can choose between some grades of MC systems, there are big differences, even with the one Ortofon system in use with me. There is a system I like best, but this is a tuned one, not regulary in sale anymore. The closer it comes to the front end of a system, the more changes are strongly audible.
That may be on both ends, even when it comes to speakers changes can alter the sound drastically but a good or bad MC system changes everything at the source of the analog signal.
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Schmitz: lucky you are living in a place where pearls are gravel. Here I have to pay something like $30 apiece and overseas shipping. Eterna died unknown to the world. Not just superb sound engineering and quality of vinyl, but artistry of such great musicians as Kurt Masur, Otmar Suitner, Herbert Kegel, Max Pommer, Martin Flamig, to name a few. Philips re-issued some Eterna repertory, but Philips LPs were step down from Eterna' heaven.
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@Burnedfingers - I agree with Bill and 6L6 et al.
At some point I had two identical turntables (Walker CJ-55) with the same tonearm (Grace Gyromaster G-727.) The same cartridge used on both (Talisman Sapphire) - via a pluggable headshell - into same front end. Different sound. The suspension on the one needed to be adjusted (and tonearm cable-dressing) to get the "same sound". Put different platter mats on - sound changes. Have them on different mass supports will also very likely change the sound - some turntables are a lot more sensitive to the mass (or lack thereof) of the support table (Linn for example.)
At some point I had two identical turntables (Walker CJ-55) with the same tonearm (Grace Gyromaster G-727.) The same cartridge used on both (Talisman Sapphire) - via a pluggable headshell - into same front end. Different sound. The suspension on the one needed to be adjusted (and tonearm cable-dressing) to get the "same sound". Put different platter mats on - sound changes. Have them on different mass supports will also very likely change the sound - some turntables are a lot more sensitive to the mass (or lack thereof) of the support table (Linn for example.)
Yes, this is the heart of europe and the former generations managed to record some of the finest vinyl out there with the performers who lived here and an audience, which was interested in the culture and their arts. But this is mostly gone here, the youth mostly isn't interested in those things and thats the main reason, why they offer Eternas for nearly free. Nobody knows a Kurt Masur any longer, same with Furtwängler, Karajan. All that could be bought cheap, only some of their top performances is high priced for audiofools.
With the return of the LP the situation has changed to some more pricey discs, I remember buying some 30 classic LP years before for 20€ all. So maybe 30, 50 Cent for one. And I still buy them that cheap on places where others aren't searching for the high culture audio past. But they are there, coming from people who must give up their households and therefore lost their record collection. I own maybe some 200 US records, just to know how they sound. But they are the same prices here as Eternas are in the US. Too high to start a collection with those.
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There are plenty of relatively expensive tables with integral pick up systems. Not to mention zero trackers. Some are horrible, some great, and everything in between.
What do you mean, please?
Every better design sells the player, system and tone arm separately because of the variety of options that can be choosen from. To restrict those options couldn't be the goal of any customer with a clear mind and enough budget. Only low price player are a being sold as a complete package.
Every better design sells the player, system and tone arm separately because of the variety of options that can be choosen from. To restrict those options couldn't be the goal of any customer with a clear mind and enough budget. Only low price player are a being sold as a complete package.
Well, Revox B-795 and it's siblings comes to mind. How about the highly acclaimed Technics SL-1200 and it's siblings. Then there's the venerable Goldmund reference series. Oh, and my pride and joy, the outstanding Maplenoll Ariadne, however altough it comes with it's own air bearing arm, you can minimally modify it to take other arms.
Back to regular tables, remember the Nakamichi Dragon? No, not the cassette deck.
Back to regular tables, remember the Nakamichi Dragon? No, not the cassette deck.
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The trend is towards high individual products so customers with high budget will become an individual player/arm/system combination in the special high end audio stores. This makes sense, because no manufacturer is best on all those fields combined and every customer wants a different solution.
Even companies like Linn offers hundreds of possible variations on their LP12 player system so each and every customer can hand tailor his own player.
The times when one player system match all different customers are finally over. That was in the 1970s, when a guitar player want to buy a Fender Strat and nothing other than that. Just the color was a discussion point.
A salesman today can offer a million versions of the Fender Strat for each customer and a million colors added.
Okay, so has anyone here watched Craig's Youtube video in it's entirety besides me? For anyone who has not, I can tell you he's doing a serious disservice to his "normal average people" as he describes them. He is clearly clued out about why and how even his cheapo tt is able to perform as well as it does. And I mean seriously clued out.
I cited both air bearing and motor driven. Also well regarded Technics 1200s. Quite a few of those were sold. My point is they were mainstream tables.
Another clueless individual is that Jarrett kid (vinyl eyezz) who thinks he knows things.
Just another youboob self-made star with a boring mouth.
I feared for my sanity so didn't. Finding a youtube video with sense in it is so hard that I tend to assume all of them are empty click bait or just too incorrect to be good for my blood pressure.
Sorry, no. My own experience from cheap to ultra expensive and those from other people who are into this hobby tell mit that every TT sounds different.
And for those I don't have to watch youtube videos.
Today, there is no mainstream in TT anymore. The Technics (disco) player is such a niche product that maybe one in a thousand people decides to buy it.
Thats quite the opposite of mainstream.
I think you may be projecting YOUR view of the market on everyone. A lot of American Dentists just want to show off their rig so an all in one that the dealer just drops in is a good choice.
In the same way that active speaker have the capability of being superior to passives an all in one gives the designer a chance to optimise for better performance than a mix and match. However audiophiles love to adjust the taste of their systems and are horrified with this concept.
There are differences in sound, but with good tables they are very minimal. Tonearm, way of driving the motor, and internal electronics make a difference. But the main thing is the cartridge and the preamp and how the tonearm and cartridge is calibrated, that is 99% of the sound with a good quality turntable. Mainly on setup, many do it wrong and then start swapping components to better the sound, while calibrating your turntable right can make a much bigger difference.
I'm a huge fan of all in one solutions, but when I read in audio forums, most of the people try to buy everything individual. And thats not because a complete solution would not be better, its mostly a question of different budgets.
And that can be spotted in every market, worldwide.
Look at the car market. 50 years ago, every second car here in germany was a Volkswagen Beetle. And they offered maybe five extras, so mostly all were nearly the same.
Today, every car is individual, you won't find two cars build on an average day that are completely the same with Volkswagen plants. And each plant produces hundreds of cars each day. And that are facts, no subjective fictions. We can go around any field of consumer goods and its all the same. Highly individual products, in every store you find two dozens of egg boilers, hair fans, whatever you name, they have dozens of models of it.
Thats a totally contrast to former consumer goods productions and it could be made only by refined industrial production methods. It was done for the benefit of the customer.
He can choose his individual products and have a great choice.
Thats the world of today, and we would not change it, even if we could. Because its for our own benefit to have a bigger choice. And thats what people do, they choose and want individual solutions in their audio systems, because no system is like the other.
We cant and dont want to go back to the Tin Lizzy, which was only available in black and with nearly no extras. No customer wants that today.
Even the Linn addicts want to choose about their fifty versions of the LP12. And not only one less.
And that can be spotted in every market, worldwide.
Look at the car market. 50 years ago, every second car here in germany was a Volkswagen Beetle. And they offered maybe five extras, so mostly all were nearly the same.
Today, every car is individual, you won't find two cars build on an average day that are completely the same with Volkswagen plants. And each plant produces hundreds of cars each day. And that are facts, no subjective fictions. We can go around any field of consumer goods and its all the same. Highly individual products, in every store you find two dozens of egg boilers, hair fans, whatever you name, they have dozens of models of it.
Thats a totally contrast to former consumer goods productions and it could be made only by refined industrial production methods. It was done for the benefit of the customer.
He can choose his individual products and have a great choice.
Thats the world of today, and we would not change it, even if we could. Because its for our own benefit to have a bigger choice. And thats what people do, they choose and want individual solutions in their audio systems, because no system is like the other.
We cant and dont want to go back to the Tin Lizzy, which was only available in black and with nearly no extras. No customer wants that today.
Even the Linn addicts want to choose about their fifty versions of the LP12. And not only one less.
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