wooo the helix 1 is something!
What is striking in the TT market is that there are not many production cost increase, could be only 10% from a budget TT to a top of the line model, but the customer has to pay 20 times the price...
like from .75mm aluminum platter to a good 2 inches vinyl coated mdf. I am not even sure that it costs more!
It seems too they make it on purpose to design the arms poorly for cheap tt
What is striking in the TT market is that there are not many production cost increase, could be only 10% from a budget TT to a top of the line model, but the customer has to pay 20 times the price...
like from .75mm aluminum platter to a good 2 inches vinyl coated mdf. I am not even sure that it costs more!
It seems too they make it on purpose to design the arms poorly for cheap tt
From what I read in some answers, they are advising me to improve my Aiwa turntable with some bricolage work.
I'm going to try it, since I've ever completely disarmed it to make bright white paint on its plinth.
I must say that this turntable has a very heavy aluminum plate; a subframe of floating steel suspended by springs with foam inside; It is manual or automatic; has the function of repeating the disc indefinitely; automatic return; Select the size of the disc and have a velocity pitch.
I have done the test of hitting it gently and it is not heard in the speakers.
In summary. I'll keep this turntable, make the buffer improvements that have been mentioned and when I can buy a turntable with a bigger budget.
I'm going to try it, since I've ever completely disarmed it to make bright white paint on its plinth.
I must say that this turntable has a very heavy aluminum plate; a subframe of floating steel suspended by springs with foam inside; It is manual or automatic; has the function of repeating the disc indefinitely; automatic return; Select the size of the disc and have a velocity pitch.
I have done the test of hitting it gently and it is not heard in the speakers.
In summary. I'll keep this turntable, make the buffer improvements that have been mentioned and when I can buy a turntable with a bigger budget.
Hi,
good choice
The torque is becoming smaller the closer the table revolves to the set speed.
The only time when full torque is asked for is the start-up phase, or by gross load variations from scratching.
To prevent a softly supsended TT from ´shaking´ during start-up EMT for example attached a special damping mechanism to the motor subassembly.
So nothing hinders a DD to be soft suspended by springs.
Also the old Dual players (701, 704, etc.) featured 3-phase motors with already low torque, and supplied only one phase with drive current at a time.
The remaining two phases were meanwhile used as generators for a speed related voltage for control purposes.
Almost all belt drives in contrast can´t control the torque in a similar fashion with the exception of the old Philips AF series, that used a true speed feedback loop (even PLL-control) with a Speed-sensor mounted radially to the platter axis.
And due to the high transmission ratio between pulley and platter rim even a low-torque motor generates ample amount of torque ... all the time, even when it is of no use.
jauu
Calvin
ps
btw. "all technics and audio technica are JUNK .... Belt turn table is a must .... a SPEED regulator is a MUST! ...."
Strange, but I thought: "What a pile of nonsense!"
Using the words belt drive and speed regulation at the same is somehow amusing ... especially withregard to the afore mentioned RPM9 ... that comes without a speed regulation.
good choice
The controller of the DD supplies the motor with just enough current, hence torque, that is required to keep the speed.
The torque is becoming smaller the closer the table revolves to the set speed.
The only time when full torque is asked for is the start-up phase, or by gross load variations from scratching.
To prevent a softly supsended TT from ´shaking´ during start-up EMT for example attached a special damping mechanism to the motor subassembly.
So nothing hinders a DD to be soft suspended by springs.
Also the old Dual players (701, 704, etc.) featured 3-phase motors with already low torque, and supplied only one phase with drive current at a time.
The remaining two phases were meanwhile used as generators for a speed related voltage for control purposes.
Almost all belt drives in contrast can´t control the torque in a similar fashion with the exception of the old Philips AF series, that used a true speed feedback loop (even PLL-control) with a Speed-sensor mounted radially to the platter axis.
And due to the high transmission ratio between pulley and platter rim even a low-torque motor generates ample amount of torque ... all the time, even when it is of no use.
jauu
Calvin
ps
btw. "all technics and audio technica are JUNK .... Belt turn table is a must .... a SPEED regulator is a MUST! ...."
Strange, but I thought: "What a pile of nonsense!"
Using the words belt drive and speed regulation at the same is somehow amusing ... especially withregard to the afore mentioned RPM9 ... that comes without a speed regulation.
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Having an utterly silent and accurately spinning platter, along with a tonearm that's immune to resonance that tracks perfectly doesn't have to cost much.
Yet, people seem to have it in their brains that "more expensive is better".
It's not!
Indeed, the "vintage" group of turntables can provide endless years of enjoyment, allowing you to bathe in the music of your choice whenever you feel the need.
Yes, some "vintage" units will need some servicing - due to aging, but once done, they are in most cases superior to new offerings. - and at a much lower price, even having paid for the needed servicing.
And I've been servicing these machines for decades, literally hundreds or more, all brands - I know the issues, the build quality and reliability, and the performance of every one that was on my bench for final tests after service.
In other words, I can speak from experience, comparing each one against another.
Nevertheless, everyone has opinions, others have biases and beliefs, some unfounded and silly.
A customer once brought in to me a Kenwood KD-66F, and told me I could keep it, he didn't need it.
It's appearance is nothing special, no fancy glamour trim, no pretty lights, a charcoal black appearance like many from the mid 1980's.
I took pity on it, since it was in "like new" cosmetic condition, not expecting much from it. - lord knows I've seen and worked on many that looked similar.
It needed a few capacitors, a fresh tonearm drive belt, (linear-tracking) and fresh lubrication, along with a new cartridge (AT-3472EP) - that's all.
The results were outstanding!
Utterly amazing performance!
Dead silent platter rotation, dead-on speeds, perfect linear tracking, and nice immunity to external vibration.
What more could you ask for?
It now resides in my main living room component cabinet for years, and compares to wildly expensive machines that I'd never think to "upgrade" to.
Why should I? - I'm extremely satisfied with this model! - And I'm quite "picky" with what I hear with my system.
Yet, people seem to have it in their brains that "more expensive is better".
It's not!
Indeed, the "vintage" group of turntables can provide endless years of enjoyment, allowing you to bathe in the music of your choice whenever you feel the need.
Yes, some "vintage" units will need some servicing - due to aging, but once done, they are in most cases superior to new offerings. - and at a much lower price, even having paid for the needed servicing.
And I've been servicing these machines for decades, literally hundreds or more, all brands - I know the issues, the build quality and reliability, and the performance of every one that was on my bench for final tests after service.
In other words, I can speak from experience, comparing each one against another.
Nevertheless, everyone has opinions, others have biases and beliefs, some unfounded and silly.
A customer once brought in to me a Kenwood KD-66F, and told me I could keep it, he didn't need it.
It's appearance is nothing special, no fancy glamour trim, no pretty lights, a charcoal black appearance like many from the mid 1980's.
I took pity on it, since it was in "like new" cosmetic condition, not expecting much from it. - lord knows I've seen and worked on many that looked similar.
It needed a few capacitors, a fresh tonearm drive belt, (linear-tracking) and fresh lubrication, along with a new cartridge (AT-3472EP) - that's all.
The results were outstanding!
Utterly amazing performance!
Dead silent platter rotation, dead-on speeds, perfect linear tracking, and nice immunity to external vibration.
What more could you ask for?
It now resides in my main living room component cabinet for years, and compares to wildly expensive machines that I'd never think to "upgrade" to.
Why should I? - I'm extremely satisfied with this model! - And I'm quite "picky" with what I hear with my system.
Good decision.
btw the rmp 9 is discontinued, the new one has a metal platter.
The project system motor is weaker than the direct drives, it has no speed regulation to compensate the AC fluctuations as well as the feedback from the platter.
Installing a speed regulator made a difference with pitch stability, of course it is not perfect with the rubber belt but surprising how better it is, I think it makes small corrections very fast and it helps combined to the platter momentum, I guess using a 10kg + (not sure) aluminum platter on the new rpm 9, is a better solution, which then introduces main bearing noises haha.
btw the rmp 9 is discontinued, the new one has a metal platter.
The project system motor is weaker than the direct drives, it has no speed regulation to compensate the AC fluctuations as well as the feedback from the platter.
Installing a speed regulator made a difference with pitch stability, of course it is not perfect with the rubber belt but surprising how better it is, I think it makes small corrections very fast and it helps combined to the platter momentum, I guess using a 10kg + (not sure) aluminum platter on the new rpm 9, is a better solution, which then introduces main bearing noises haha.
wiseoldtech, since you mentioned linear tracking turntables, I have seen in my city a Technics Sl-Q5.
It seems to be in good condition and functioning.
I have not bought it for fear that in the future I will have a problem because what I have seen in your service manual has a very complicated electronic system.
The other is the low supply of p-mount cartridges.
But I have always liked the linear tracking Technics since my youth.
It seems to be in good condition and functioning.
I have not bought it for fear that in the future I will have a problem because what I have seen in your service manual has a very complicated electronic system.
The other is the low supply of p-mount cartridges.
But I have always liked the linear tracking Technics since my youth.
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I love Technics products, they always made them to high standards.
My main system is all Technics, except for that Kenwood turntable and Akai reel-to-reel.
However, the "lid-mounted" linear turntables they offer did not amaze me much.
I just don't like the tonearm supported "by the lid" design, even though it looks cute.
I much prefer linear tables with the tonearm on the same chassis as the platter, as the Kenwood is.
A good turntable always has the platter and arm on the same strong chassis to eliminate any distortions.
If I was to want a Technics Linear, it would be the SL-M3, however, my Kenwood suits me just fine.
As for P-mount cartridges, there are some outstanding ones - The AT cartridges are just lovely, and compare with standard cartridges.
Ortofon is another P-mount, but I grew bored with its sound after a while.
The Aiwa is a well designed machine with a good arm, I see no reason to change from it, just keep it maintained properly.
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wouldn't gel mat (silicone) charge up with static electricity and introduce noise?
I bought 2 leather mats to go over the vinyl platter and I found the project leather mat almost flat, is is costly but I really like it, the other one was increasing the warps and is unusable.
Static is #1 enemy , cork, rubber, silicone bad, vinyl bad, metal bad and magnetic, introduces more THD noise and amplifies pops/click disk damages as well as noise...
I can play a digital song, then switch to vinyl and you would never be able to tell, clicks and pops are buried way down into the sound.
I bought 2 leather mats to go over the vinyl platter and I found the project leather mat almost flat, is is costly but I really like it, the other one was increasing the warps and is unusable.
Static is #1 enemy , cork, rubber, silicone bad, vinyl bad, metal bad and magnetic, introduces more THD noise and amplifies pops/click disk damages as well as noise...
I can play a digital song, then switch to vinyl and you would never be able to tell, clicks and pops are buried way down into the sound.
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For decades, manufacurers used rubber or neoprene mats on turntables.
Hundreds of manufacturers, both low AND higher end machines.
And life was good, people enjoyed their equipment.
Then, along came internet guru's with their opinions, and drove other people crazy with opinions, most being negative and baseless.
Hundreds of manufacturers, both low AND higher end machines.
And life was good, people enjoyed their equipment.
Then, along came internet guru's with their opinions, and drove other people crazy with opinions, most being negative and baseless.
and they still build them that way, because a good leather mat cost more.
anyone with a TT before CDs played them with an unfit, inadequate worn needle, played it with lots of EQ, and removed hairs but not micro-dust. People still enjoy their ipods etc 99% actually. So nothing has changed, you must be happy.
Yes, newer cartridges are better, and leather becomes more relevant when you upgrade the arm and platter, except maybe the decca and spuds, even back then, and the static electricity is picked up by the magnet system and amplified.
it does make a difference both for MM/MC, nothing is wrong with rubber and neoprene, leather just kills it and enable you to enjoy vinyl without pops/clicks which is surprisingly good.
I am not an Internet guru at all, just a diyer,
Well the result of this era is records which are almost unplayable today, worn off with dust damage and heavy distortion, nothing can bring those records back.
anyone with a TT before CDs played them with an unfit, inadequate worn needle, played it with lots of EQ, and removed hairs but not micro-dust. People still enjoy their ipods etc 99% actually. So nothing has changed, you must be happy.
Yes, newer cartridges are better, and leather becomes more relevant when you upgrade the arm and platter, except maybe the decca and spuds, even back then, and the static electricity is picked up by the magnet system and amplified.
it does make a difference both for MM/MC, nothing is wrong with rubber and neoprene, leather just kills it and enable you to enjoy vinyl without pops/clicks which is surprisingly good.
I am not an Internet guru at all, just a diyer,
Well the result of this era is records which are almost unplayable today, worn off with dust damage and heavy distortion, nothing can bring those records back.
wiseoldtech,
the mat on the Kenwood KD decks is a heavy rubber one, it's inert and I'm sure it kills any sound that 'may' eminate from the heavy aluminium platter. Why on earth would I want to spend good money on flavour of the month!
Digressing but it proves the same point - i/connects - they operate behind the system and shouldn't be visible but look at some of the comments - "they feel nice/not nice", wtf are some using them as sex toys - They look gorgeous/ugly" what the hell does the visual image have to do with how they convey a signal.
ALPUY - if you take a look online at the Kenwood with it's hardboard type base plate removed you may think it looks complicated but removing the PCB was a doddle, I think the Kenwod engineers designed it to be. removing the steel alloy cylinder bearing is less so because the tolerances are so tight that anything less and it wouldn't work. This cylinder is rifled so that in effect the bearing surface isn't just the centime sized base but the cylinder wall itself.
Your obviously quite happy with your present fully automatic deck. You could shell out for something like the Kenwood KD @ nowadays around €800-1000 but why.
Then you might think that a good MC was nec. to justify the new deck. I was lucky to buy an AT 33EV for $299 - £1=$1.75 at the time via a friend in Florida. The same MC was £545 in the UK and even more expensive in the rest of Europe and so it goes. After all it's the music that counts.
Years ago I bought cheap a s/hand a Pickering 7500S and the UK made PLZ pre-preamp. The stylus looks like new - who knows I might decide not to shell out on an ART 9 or a Soundsmith Zephyr Star - you pays your m oney and makes your choice.
the mat on the Kenwood KD decks is a heavy rubber one, it's inert and I'm sure it kills any sound that 'may' eminate from the heavy aluminium platter. Why on earth would I want to spend good money on flavour of the month!
Digressing but it proves the same point - i/connects - they operate behind the system and shouldn't be visible but look at some of the comments - "they feel nice/not nice", wtf are some using them as sex toys - They look gorgeous/ugly" what the hell does the visual image have to do with how they convey a signal.
ALPUY - if you take a look online at the Kenwood with it's hardboard type base plate removed you may think it looks complicated but removing the PCB was a doddle, I think the Kenwod engineers designed it to be. removing the steel alloy cylinder bearing is less so because the tolerances are so tight that anything less and it wouldn't work. This cylinder is rifled so that in effect the bearing surface isn't just the centime sized base but the cylinder wall itself.
Your obviously quite happy with your present fully automatic deck. You could shell out for something like the Kenwood KD @ nowadays around €800-1000 but why.
Then you might think that a good MC was nec. to justify the new deck. I was lucky to buy an AT 33EV for $299 - £1=$1.75 at the time via a friend in Florida. The same MC was £545 in the UK and even more expensive in the rest of Europe and so it goes. After all it's the music that counts.
Years ago I bought cheap a s/hand a Pickering 7500S and the UK made PLZ pre-preamp. The stylus looks like new - who knows I might decide not to shell out on an ART 9 or a Soundsmith Zephyr Star - you pays your m oney and makes your choice.
Neither do regas, pro-ject etc etc etc.
That I can agree with and intrigued so few people try this even with very expensive tables.
No. I use a Herbie's mat which is very "silicone like" in nature. It does not "charge up" with static.
jeff