fdegrove said:Hi,
From rebuilding badly designed TTs I may get the wrong conclusions too....
Fact is, I worked with and have designed TTs and tonearms and once you have one part wrong the other is going to be wrong too...
Just my experience,
Your not making any logical sense, no wonder you get puzzled
You've suddenly leapt from saying a turntable doesn't
a affect the sound of a cartridge to that it shouldn't.
And I don't like being told how I form my conclusions.
Your supposition is entirely inaccurate and pompous.
sreten.
Hi,
Logic tells me I am right...
My ears tells me I am right....
People keep on telling me I am always right....Pfwww...that's a responsibility...
Although it's true, sell the Delphi and get an NA, Jose...
Thank me later...
Tom's a real chum and he brings to the market one piece at the time what we, he and him knew ages ago already...you won't regret...
Brilliance at it best...
While I have no commercial bindings, I can only say that our thinking is alike.
Cheers,
Logic tells me I am right...
My ears tells me I am right....
People keep on telling me I am always right....Pfwww...that's a responsibility...
Although it's true, sell the Delphi and get an NA, Jose...
Thank me later...
Tom's a real chum and he brings to the market one piece at the time what we, he and him knew ages ago already...you won't regret...
Brilliance at it best...
While I have no commercial bindings, I can only say that our thinking is alike.
Cheers,
lessee..what have I owned and used:
Shinon Red
Koetsu Black Goldline
Shinon Red Boron
Ortofon MC20
Ortofon MC 20 MkII
Ortofon MC 20 Super
Ortofon MC30
Ortofon MC30 Super
Shure m95E (my first cartridge!)
Audioquest 404i
Musical Fidelity MC 45
Shinon MV 2.5
Nagoka MP11 Boron
Nagoka MP 50
Nagoka MP 50 (boron?)
Audio Technica MC33 (wow!)
AT 135
AT160 (I'd love to get another one of these!)
A bunch of shibata'ed MM AT units, too many to remember.
Signet AM 40
Goldring Eroica LX
Goldring 1042?
Denon 103
Denon MC160
Grado blacks, etc (8's etc)
Grado Reference (the cheap one, joe sent me that one for free)
Blue Point Special (suprisingly bad! those mer'cans are crazy...)
And more that I can't remember. You know you are on the right track concerning music as opposed to audio....when you have a big box of dead $1K~ MC cartridges.
It's always been the super low output MC units that have impressed me. but they MUST, I repeat MUST be transformer driven to reveal their true qualities.
Shinon Red
Koetsu Black Goldline
Shinon Red Boron
Ortofon MC20
Ortofon MC 20 MkII
Ortofon MC 20 Super
Ortofon MC30
Ortofon MC30 Super
Shure m95E (my first cartridge!)
Audioquest 404i
Musical Fidelity MC 45
Shinon MV 2.5
Nagoka MP11 Boron
Nagoka MP 50
Nagoka MP 50 (boron?)
Audio Technica MC33 (wow!)
AT 135
AT160 (I'd love to get another one of these!)
A bunch of shibata'ed MM AT units, too many to remember.
Signet AM 40
Goldring Eroica LX
Goldring 1042?
Denon 103
Denon MC160
Grado blacks, etc (8's etc)
Grado Reference (the cheap one, joe sent me that one for free)
Blue Point Special (suprisingly bad! those mer'cans are crazy...)
And more that I can't remember. You know you are on the right track concerning music as opposed to audio....when you have a big box of dead $1K~ MC cartridges.
It's always been the super low output MC units that have impressed me. but they MUST, I repeat MUST be transformer driven to reveal their true qualities.
Hi,
Nope...
I'm open to propositions though...what transformers? Make, etc?
Point is I can design a transistor based MC head amp just as fast as a tube based design that'll beat any xformer at cost hands down...
If any xformer designer can come up with the reverse situation I'd be happy to to reply...
Fact is I've not heard from them over the last twenty tears...errr years...
Cheers,
Nope...
I'm open to propositions though...what transformers? Make, etc?
Point is I can design a transistor based MC head amp just as fast as a tube based design that'll beat any xformer at cost hands down...
If any xformer designer can come up with the reverse situation I'd be happy to to reply...
Fact is I've not heard from them over the last twenty tears...errr years...
Cheers,
Yes, good transformers tend to cost. but.. they also leave the transients and phasing quite unmuddied in some funamentally important and musical ways. It's the I to V conversion that is done in such harmless or benign manner that really makes the transformers rock over any solid state or tube MC attempts.
I might be convinced otherwise, as I have not heard the best tube units yet. But even then, you open them up..and you find the transforemers inside of them! Go figure.
Jensen makes good ones I hear, and in my earlier post in this thread, I stated the name of a company that was recently reccomended to me for MC transformers. I personally have no idea if they are any good or not. So far, my ole' MC Cotter silver wound potted MC transformer has been hard to beat. Especially since I found it at a garage sale, basically NIB for $15.00.
As for the eroica LX, the body on them is horrible sounding plastic and comes off incredibly easy. Then, I damped the assembly that was left, and it sounded much better. Blew the doors of of a Mint Shinon Red Boron I had lying around. Some might say that beating the shinon is not hard to do, but... it was a pricey little item back then....(about $1k us back then)
I might be convinced otherwise, as I have not heard the best tube units yet. But even then, you open them up..and you find the transforemers inside of them! Go figure.
Jensen makes good ones I hear, and in my earlier post in this thread, I stated the name of a company that was recently reccomended to me for MC transformers. I personally have no idea if they are any good or not. So far, my ole' MC Cotter silver wound potted MC transformer has been hard to beat. Especially since I found it at a garage sale, basically NIB for $15.00.
As for the eroica LX, the body on them is horrible sounding plastic and comes off incredibly easy. Then, I damped the assembly that was left, and it sounded much better. Blew the doors of of a Mint Shinon Red Boron I had lying around. Some might say that beating the shinon is not hard to do, but... it was a pricey little item back then....(about $1k us back then)
KBK
Could you please enlighten the rest of us, poor miserable deaf barbarians, about "fundamentally important and musical ways"?
Could you please name any of those solid state or tube MC attempts you have compared to transformers?
I don't know about the Cotter transformer, I've never had the chance to try it.
But at the time I bought my Ortofon MC7500 (a very low output cartridge - about 0.13 mV) I also bought Ortofon's T-3000, which has a gain of 32 db.
I tried the combination for a couple of months and I always thought there was some kind of softening of transients and a small lack of "sparkle" in high frequencies.
At first I thought there was something wrong with the Ortofon transformer but the sound character was the same if not worse with both the EAR and the Lyra transformers I borrowed from friends to try.
I replaced T-3000 with my old diy-battery powered Threshold M1 (20 db of gain) and the sound balanced better except that there was not enough gain to drive my power amps.
After some research I decided, thank God, to build the Ono.
After finishing construction, it took me about a week of careful listening to find the correct loading value and that was it!
So, why don't you keep an open mind and buy or build yourself a decent phono stage to compare things and stop embarassing people in this forum by being so dogmatic.
But before doing that you should get yourself a high quality TT/Arm combination and a cartridge more accurate than the cheap stuff included in the list you posted earlier on.
Regards,
Nick
Could you please enlighten the rest of us, poor miserable deaf barbarians, about "fundamentally important and musical ways"?
Could you please name any of those solid state or tube MC attempts you have compared to transformers?
I don't know about the Cotter transformer, I've never had the chance to try it.
But at the time I bought my Ortofon MC7500 (a very low output cartridge - about 0.13 mV) I also bought Ortofon's T-3000, which has a gain of 32 db.
I tried the combination for a couple of months and I always thought there was some kind of softening of transients and a small lack of "sparkle" in high frequencies.
At first I thought there was something wrong with the Ortofon transformer but the sound character was the same if not worse with both the EAR and the Lyra transformers I borrowed from friends to try.
I replaced T-3000 with my old diy-battery powered Threshold M1 (20 db of gain) and the sound balanced better except that there was not enough gain to drive my power amps.
After some research I decided, thank God, to build the Ono.
After finishing construction, it took me about a week of careful listening to find the correct loading value and that was it!
So, why don't you keep an open mind and buy or build yourself a decent phono stage to compare things and stop embarassing people in this forum by being so dogmatic.
But before doing that you should get yourself a high quality TT/Arm combination and a cartridge more accurate than the cheap stuff included in the list you posted earlier on.
Regards,
Nick
Re: MC Cartridges
I'm sure all this is helping Phibes choose a cartridge
Its a Rega P25 turntable and an ME phono stage.
http://www.me-au.com/meriaa.html
According to the above link high-output moving coils are required
for the stand-alone pre-amp even though it has a gain switch.
The other ME preamps are either MM or MC.
The DL110 still seems a good bet for an introduction to moving coils.
I've never heard the Dynavector DV-10x4 MKII or the two Sumiko
Bluepoint models.
sreten.
phibes said:
I'm sure all this is helping Phibes choose a cartridge
Its a Rega P25 turntable and an ME phono stage.
http://www.me-au.com/meriaa.html
According to the above link high-output moving coils are required
for the stand-alone pre-amp even though it has a gain switch.
The other ME preamps are either MM or MC.
The DL110 still seems a good bet for an introduction to moving coils.
I've never heard the Dynavector DV-10x4 MKII or the two Sumiko
Bluepoint models.
sreten.
Hi Jose,
No, NA, Nothingham Analogue are finished TTs.
Here's the importer for the Netherlands:
ANALOGUE AUDIO
If you're looking for a kit then there's Teres, Sheu and probably some others I forget.
Cheers,
No, NA, Nothingham Analogue are finished TTs.
Here's the importer for the Netherlands:
ANALOGUE AUDIO
If you're looking for a kit then there's Teres, Sheu and probably some others I forget.
Cheers,
Audiofanatic
I have mine on paper, not in a file, but here it is as it was posted by arq_ some time ago.
Q1-Q7 in the original were MPS6571's, but MPSA18's or similar low noise NPN's will work fine (NP's words not mine).
I built mine using BC550C and if you decide to go for it match them as closely as possible.
Don't bother about the ps, replace R17 with 1K and use 2 9V batteries in series for both channels, they will last for about 6 months with heavy use.
You know, as a design it is 25+ years old but it's still unique, extremely quiet, no feedback, no loading problems, sounds fluid, lightning fast and with no grain at all.
And if it had the gain of the Ono mc stage, I don't think I would have been tempted to build the Ono.
As long as you are using a cartridge with an output >0.2mV partner it with the Pearl and you are going to be a happy man.
Regards,
Nick
I have mine on paper, not in a file, but here it is as it was posted by arq_ some time ago.
Q1-Q7 in the original were MPS6571's, but MPSA18's or similar low noise NPN's will work fine (NP's words not mine).
I built mine using BC550C and if you decide to go for it match them as closely as possible.
Don't bother about the ps, replace R17 with 1K and use 2 9V batteries in series for both channels, they will last for about 6 months with heavy use.
You know, as a design it is 25+ years old but it's still unique, extremely quiet, no feedback, no loading problems, sounds fluid, lightning fast and with no grain at all.
And if it had the gain of the Ono mc stage, I don't think I would have been tempted to build the Ono.
As long as you are using a cartridge with an output >0.2mV partner it with the Pearl and you are going to be a happy man.
Regards,
Nick
Attachments
MC Cartidges
Hi Sreten,
I have enjoyed reading some of the debate my original post has caused and I agree it has in places taken a diverse path away from my original thread. Thanks for the reviews regarding the DL-110.........it was particularly interesting to read the comments on this cartridge when used in the Rega P25.
The ME preamp is a well made and good performing phono stage when using the appropriate MM or MC cartridges. I certainly wouldn't consider using a step up transformer so I suppose some of the suggestions to use a very low output MC cartridge would simply not be a consideration. The Denon DL-110 is looking like the best option for me and especially considering the TT and phono stage I'm currently using.
Happy New Year to all and thanks for the suggestions.
Cheers
Hi Sreten,
I have enjoyed reading some of the debate my original post has caused and I agree it has in places taken a diverse path away from my original thread. Thanks for the reviews regarding the DL-110.........it was particularly interesting to read the comments on this cartridge when used in the Rega P25.
The ME preamp is a well made and good performing phono stage when using the appropriate MM or MC cartridges. I certainly wouldn't consider using a step up transformer so I suppose some of the suggestions to use a very low output MC cartridge would simply not be a consideration. The Denon DL-110 is looking like the best option for me and especially considering the TT and phono stage I'm currently using.
Happy New Year to all and thanks for the suggestions.
Cheers
Re: KBK
Hmmm.... I said that I could be convinced otherwise, is that not similar enough to saying that I have an open mind?
As for the plethora of mid-rangey older catridges, well.. not all of us can afford more expensive units. Or feel it is nessessary. I hope you are not alluding to excluivism based on a given unit's price. ( I will say truthfully- that I do not think you are) I was illustrating my familiarity with cartridges, and those who can read..can read my experience with what, and glean what they need to from that. Which is quite a bit different to alluding to familiarity with high end components, but having none.
But one thing I DO have is a large experience with doing single cause analyis of component (parts) level changes and modifications to audio and video equpment, whcih can put one years ahead of one who may merely swap components (whole device), no matter what that component price range may be. And yes, I have made my own tonearm before. Right now, I'm using a modded LP12, and a mildly improved Kuzma arm. I liked the Kuzma (slightly grey and screechy as it was, but it could be easily fixed) when it came out, and bought one again recently. I like the fact that it was designed ON a Linn LP12. I am not a big fan of high mass turntables. Not at all. I also work in mechanical and acoustical noise control. Mass is generally considered to be a bad thing. I'm starting to think about buying another arm, or the awful task of designing and executing my own table. yuk. that's a LOT of work.
BTW, I would like to hear a SS MC stage that satisfys. it would be a new thing for me to hear. I've HEARD quite a few,but none have ever satisfied. All seemd a bit too 'hard'. and I am one who tends to use only SS high current amplification, so I could not be accused of being 'tube biased'. A smart person is always ready to be wrong, but is still steadfast in their opinions.
Nickolas K. said:
Hmmm.... I said that I could be convinced otherwise, is that not similar enough to saying that I have an open mind?
As for the plethora of mid-rangey older catridges, well.. not all of us can afford more expensive units. Or feel it is nessessary. I hope you are not alluding to excluivism based on a given unit's price. ( I will say truthfully- that I do not think you are) I was illustrating my familiarity with cartridges, and those who can read..can read my experience with what, and glean what they need to from that. Which is quite a bit different to alluding to familiarity with high end components, but having none.
But one thing I DO have is a large experience with doing single cause analyis of component (parts) level changes and modifications to audio and video equpment, whcih can put one years ahead of one who may merely swap components (whole device), no matter what that component price range may be. And yes, I have made my own tonearm before. Right now, I'm using a modded LP12, and a mildly improved Kuzma arm. I liked the Kuzma (slightly grey and screechy as it was, but it could be easily fixed) when it came out, and bought one again recently. I like the fact that it was designed ON a Linn LP12. I am not a big fan of high mass turntables. Not at all. I also work in mechanical and acoustical noise control. Mass is generally considered to be a bad thing. I'm starting to think about buying another arm, or the awful task of designing and executing my own table. yuk. that's a LOT of work.
BTW, I would like to hear a SS MC stage that satisfys. it would be a new thing for me to hear. I've HEARD quite a few,but none have ever satisfied. All seemd a bit too 'hard'. and I am one who tends to use only SS high current amplification, so I could not be accused of being 'tube biased'. A smart person is always ready to be wrong, but is still steadfast in their opinions.
SS Phono Stage!
Hi KBK,
Have you had the chance to listen to the PLINIUS M14 yet! This is one of the best SS phono amps I've ever heard.
Fluid, transparant, lightning fast, and extreme deep and powerfull bass. Atleast in combination with the Ortofon MC20 SUPER, the Van Den Hul MC one Special and the Shelter 901.
The price of this well build tank is around $4000.00 !
Best regards,
Audiofanatic
Hi KBK,
Have you had the chance to listen to the PLINIUS M14 yet! This is one of the best SS phono amps I've ever heard.
Fluid, transparant, lightning fast, and extreme deep and powerfull bass. Atleast in combination with the Ortofon MC20 SUPER, the Van Den Hul MC one Special and the Shelter 901.
The price of this well build tank is around $4000.00 !
Best regards,
Audiofanatic
Attachments
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.