Racer,
There is plenty of published work on this topic. Here is a very good primer that includes simple guidelines on frequency selection:
Ultrasonic Cavitations and Precision Cleaning by: Sami B Awad
The calculations for pressure and localized temperature at 20kHz are something to which, I personally, would not want to expose my favorite LPs. And please note the sections about sub micron cleaning and delicate cleaning at 60-80kHz. Excerpt:
"Cavitations are generated in the order of microseconds. At the 20 kHz frequency, it is estimated that the pressure is about 35-70 K Pascal and the transient localized temperatures are about 5000°C, with the velocity of micro streaming around 400 Km/hr (Figure 2).
Several factors have great influence on the cavitation's intensity and abundance in a given medium. Among these factors are the ultrasonic wave form, its frequency and the power amplitude. Other determining factors are the colligative properties of the liquid medium, including viscosity, surface tension, density and vapor pressure; the medium temperature and the liquid flow, whether static or dynamic or laminar; and dissolved gases.
In general, at low frequencies (20-30 kHz), a relatively smaller number of cavitations with larger sizes and more energy are generated. At higher frequencies (60-100 kHz), much denser cavitations with moderate or lower energies are formed. Low frequencies are more appropriate for cleaning heavy and large-size components, while high frequency (60-80 kHz) ultrasonics is recommended for cleaning delicate surfaces and for the rinsing step.
For example, at 68 kHz, the cavitation abundance is high enough and mild enough to remove detergent films and remove submicron particles in the rinsing steps without inflicting damage on surfaces. The 35-45 kHz frequency range was found to be appropriate for a wide range of industrial components and materials."
Awad's credentials are solid:
Dr. Sami Awad is VP of technology at Crest Ultrasonics (Trenton, NJ). He has more than 15 years experience in developing new chemistries and processes for precision cleaning, surface treatment and metal forming. Awad is the author of more than 25 scientific academic papers in organic synthesis and reaction mechanisms, and has served on the teaching faculties of Drexel University (Philadelphia, PA) and Cairo University, Egypt. Awad is a member of ACS, Ultrasonic Industrial Association (UIA), IDEMA and ASM. He holds a Ph.D. in organic chemistry.
Cheers,
B B
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About filtration.
That's another reason to spring for a quality commercial unit. When I see the filaments of sediment begin to aggregate on the bottom, I let the Elmasonic sit overnight, set the drain at the 2 o'clock position, and drain off the fluid at the rate of 2 litres per hour into a 4 litre jug. Sediment is undisturbed. I let this continue until there is 5-15 mm of fluid left in the tank, as convenient, and discard the remainder, which contains at least 95% of the sediment.
That's another reason to spring for a quality commercial unit. When I see the filaments of sediment begin to aggregate on the bottom, I let the Elmasonic sit overnight, set the drain at the 2 o'clock position, and drain off the fluid at the rate of 2 litres per hour into a 4 litre jug. Sediment is undisturbed. I let this continue until there is 5-15 mm of fluid left in the tank, as convenient, and discard the remainder, which contains at least 95% of the sediment.
WOW
829 posts before some negative comments! Racer I suggest you READ the whole thread before popping in with your asnine remarks. You haven't been part of it and you have contributed nothing to this thread. Why don't you find some other thread or better yet some other site to share your negative crass bovine excreta thoughts.
I don't know es, some things just aren't supposed to get immersed, and I would be strongly inclined to include a wooden body cartridge in that category.
I really don't think I could make myself immerse any complete cartridge that I valued. It's one of those "You go first" type of situations, and I'm not going to be the first guy!
I have read of people successfully using an UC for cleaning the stylus only, from those types of cartridges where the stylus can be removed.
B B
Ok, hope I'm still on topic....after speaking with Richard Vandersteen and Johnny Rutan (Audio Connection, NJ), I'm ready to make my own US cleaner. I will get a Vibrato tank as it's the least expensive and it seems like you all are happy with yours. Question:
Is it really worth going up to 80hz from 60z? What is the back order time on these?
I have a woodshop for furniture building, so I can do most anything in regards to wood or even some plastic parts. I need to know what is the best motor (any any other accessory I need with it) to get and where to get it. Also, what size metal rod and how to connect it to the motor? Can I just get a stock piece of steel rod or is there something special I need?
I can look back in this thread somewhere to see where we now stand on cork or whatever to hold the records in place so the water doesn't disturb the tables and the pressure fit works. Also, did we figure out how much space we need in for a 60hz and or 80?
I am willing to do a filter eventually I guess, but I don't think I need one right away. Also, how often will I be cleaning once I get everything clean and in the right sleeves? I use the AQ carbon brush when playing a record and I also just found my old Zerostat in case I need to run that too.
Have I asked the right questions? Sorry, but I have MS and this thread is SOOO long. I don't want to miss anything. I'm hoping Vibrato can also let me know about the delivery times for both units.
Thanks to all of you. I GREATLY appreciate this and am ready to clean.
Is it really worth going up to 80hz from 60z? What is the back order time on these?
I have a woodshop for furniture building, so I can do most anything in regards to wood or even some plastic parts. I need to know what is the best motor (any any other accessory I need with it) to get and where to get it. Also, what size metal rod and how to connect it to the motor? Can I just get a stock piece of steel rod or is there something special I need?
I can look back in this thread somewhere to see where we now stand on cork or whatever to hold the records in place so the water doesn't disturb the tables and the pressure fit works. Also, did we figure out how much space we need in for a 60hz and or 80?
I am willing to do a filter eventually I guess, but I don't think I need one right away. Also, how often will I be cleaning once I get everything clean and in the right sleeves? I use the AQ carbon brush when playing a record and I also just found my old Zerostat in case I need to run that too.
Have I asked the right questions? Sorry, but I have MS and this thread is SOOO long. I don't want to miss anything. I'm hoping Vibrato can also let me know about the delivery times for both units.
Thanks to all of you. I GREATLY appreciate this and am ready to clean.
Hey CT,
Here is a deal on a 1/10th RPM; 6 RPH motor at a ridiculously cheap price, $4.85! The company is All Electronics in Van Nuys, Ca. They buy and sell surpus electronics. I ought a couple pf these and they work great plus have a 1/4" shaft.
1/10 RPM SYNCHRONOUS MOTOR, 115VAC | All Electronics Corp.
I have a 60 KHZ cleaner and have been very happy with it. Haven't had the opportunity to try an 80 to see what difference if any. Contact Louis at Vibrato he can give you some honest awnsers on the cleaners he builds and the lead times needed.
Here is a deal on a 1/10th RPM; 6 RPH motor at a ridiculously cheap price, $4.85! The company is All Electronics in Van Nuys, Ca. They buy and sell surpus electronics. I ought a couple pf these and they work great plus have a 1/4" shaft.
1/10 RPM SYNCHRONOUS MOTOR, 115VAC | All Electronics Corp.
I have a 60 KHZ cleaner and have been very happy with it. Haven't had the opportunity to try an 80 to see what difference if any. Contact Louis at Vibrato he can give you some honest awnsers on the cleaners he builds and the lead times needed.
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That was my concern as well. After a few screw-ups, I went here:
https://www.servocity.com/html/set_screw_shaft_couplers.html#.VHSgLWdMXSg
and got a 1/8"-1/4" coupler and a 1/4" 7" shaft, and it works perfectly!
The Autotrol motor that Zg925 linked to at All Electronics is a true bargain at under $5. Zg graciously sent me one to look at and it seems just a little beefier than the more expensive Herbach & Rademan motors.
And our European friends should note All Electronics has a 230 V version of this little motor too. In fact, it's slightly cheaper than the 115V version!
Great find, Zg !
B B
And our European friends should note All Electronics has a 230 V version of this little motor too. In fact, it's slightly cheaper than the 115V version!
Great find, Zg !
B B
For me the 1/4" rod works fine instead of the 9/32" rod. Your only cleaning the vinyl and not tracking on a turntable so that 1/32" won't make any difference (my opinion). 9/32" couplers are like hens teeth to find.
THanks so much guys. I kept worrying about things I couldn't do....the only other thing I have a question on I guess is the motor...I am new so bear with me please....What else other than the motor do I need to make it run...like a cord and plug...a switch or control unit etc.....
also what size cork did everyone decide on? thanks so much guys...I still need to find out about the 80hz tank vs the 60hz...would you guys spend the extra? I get the impression that the two mega commercial units are using less than 60hz, but I don't know for sure. I was told by Richard Vandersteen this last Saturday that he uses the Klausse unit and feels it makes a huge difference over the vacuum units. Was also told if you go vacuum to go the Clearaudio route over the VPI route...I found that interesting as well...time to make my own.
That was my experience as well. 9/32" basically don't exist so 1/4" works fine for me.
Also, has anyone tried to add a "conventional" cleaning solution (i.e., DiscDR; VPI or whatever) to the solution? Will it help, harm or what?
Wiring your motor
Sooner,
if you have one of the synchronous AC gear motors, all you need is a two wire A/C cord with a plug and a switch that you can buy at your local hardware emporium. Like this inexpensive guy:
Power Cord with thumb-wheel switch
There are a variety of connectors you can use to connect the power cord wires to the leads on the motor. See my version 2 parts list in message 242 for the wire connectors I chose to use:
Version 2 parts list
Ideally, you want these connections to be enclosed, along with the motor, inside a junction box of some sort so they're not exposed to liquid splashes and the like.
Regarding 60khz vs. 80khz. Either will work fine, it's up to you whether it's worth the wait and higher cost for the 80khz. 80khz is slightly "better" but true 60khz performs fine.
Good luck,
B B
Sooner,
if you have one of the synchronous AC gear motors, all you need is a two wire A/C cord with a plug and a switch that you can buy at your local hardware emporium. Like this inexpensive guy:
Power Cord with thumb-wheel switch
There are a variety of connectors you can use to connect the power cord wires to the leads on the motor. See my version 2 parts list in message 242 for the wire connectors I chose to use:
Version 2 parts list
Ideally, you want these connections to be enclosed, along with the motor, inside a junction box of some sort so they're not exposed to liquid splashes and the like.
Regarding 60khz vs. 80khz. Either will work fine, it's up to you whether it's worth the wait and higher cost for the 80khz. 80khz is slightly "better" but true 60khz performs fine.
Good luck,
B B
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Wiring your motor
Sooner,
if you have one of the synchronous AC gear motors, all you need is a two wire A/C cord with a plug and a switch that you can buy at your local hardware emporium. Like this inexpensive guy:
Power Cord with thumb-wheel switch
There are a variety of connectors you can use to connect the power cord wires to the leads on the motor. See my version 2 parts list in message 242 for the wire connectors I chose to use:
Version 2 parts list
Ideally, you want these connections to be enclosed, along with the motor, inside a junction box of some sort so they're not exposed to liquid splashes and the like.
Good luck,
B B
Sooner,
if you have one of the synchronous AC gear motors, all you need is a two wire A/C cord with a plug and a switch that you can buy at your local hardware emporium. Like this inexpensive guy:
Power Cord with thumb-wheel switch
There are a variety of connectors you can use to connect the power cord wires to the leads on the motor. See my version 2 parts list in message 242 for the wire connectors I chose to use:
Version 2 parts list
Ideally, you want these connections to be enclosed, along with the motor, inside a junction box of some sort so they're not exposed to liquid splashes and the like.
Good luck,
B B
60KHz or 80KHz? For the 80KHz unit you need at least 3/4 inch between records and between record and tank; more is better. For a 60KHz unit, you need a full inch. As before, more is better. With 1.5 inch spacing and 80KHz, I get good action in all parts of the tank, and very, very clean records.
If you try to cheat, say 5/8 inch spacing, the results are dramatically inferior.
If you try to cheat, say 5/8 inch spacing, the results are dramatically inferior.
