I'm trying to mock up a new crossover for my Swans (hivi) DIY 2.2a
I found the Woofer (HiVi D6.8B) frequency responce and impedance responce as text files on parts express. I just saved them as ZMA, and FRD files. Is this how you're supposed to do it ??
But I could not find any files for the HiVi Q1R 1-1/8. Anyone???
I found the Woofer (HiVi D6.8B) frequency responce and impedance responce as text files on parts express. I just saved them as ZMA, and FRD files. Is this how you're supposed to do it ??
But I could not find any files for the HiVi Q1R 1-1/8. Anyone???
You'll likely have to trace them. IIRC, zaph had the Q1R in his mishmash group, so you can find the files. I would use FPTracer to trace them, and google will find it for you. If not, then search this forum.
Then- adapt the responses to the baffles via the Blender or Response Modeler programs. If you do not do this, and just use the mfg files as they are shown, you'll be starting with less than accurate data for the boxes in which the drivers are utilized.
Extract minimum phase, enter the offsets, and start modelling your xover.
Reading the sticky 'without measurements' will help you immensely.
Later,
Wolf
Then- adapt the responses to the baffles via the Blender or Response Modeler programs. If you do not do this, and just use the mfg files as they are shown, you'll be starting with less than accurate data for the boxes in which the drivers are utilized.
Extract minimum phase, enter the offsets, and start modelling your xover.
Reading the sticky 'without measurements' will help you immensely.
Later,
Wolf
this thread contains the FRD and ZMA files for Q1R
HiVi/Swans DIY 2.2A (crossover modification/upgrade)
HiVi/Swans DIY 2.2A (crossover modification/upgrade)
thanks guys ! After looking at the FR charts of these 2 drivers, a passive crossover looks like a pretty bad decision. (as these drivers are about as flat as the mountains of Colorado) Looks like I'll stick with the active setup on these.
I will try some passive design possibly on another easier (flatter) set of speakers
I will try some passive design possibly on another easier (flatter) set of speakers
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in the thread mentioned there are 3 crossover designs which have a +/- 2db on 80hz from 200-10khz. read the thread to the end
Thats a pretty ragged responce. I was able to get it within +/- 1db with my zoudio amp across the board. But like I said in the other thread, I emulated my Paradigm Studio 20.v5 speakers. And now there is TONS more bass, the trebble can be set just how you like it, aaaaaaand the vocals are OH so sweet 🙂
With this said. The 2 drivers are honestly really hard to work with. I just couldn't get them to my liking 100%. I will be moving on to another build. But isn't this the whole point of this hobby??🙂
With this said. The 2 drivers are honestly really hard to work with. I just couldn't get them to my liking 100%. I will be moving on to another build. But isn't this the whole point of this hobby??🙂
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Both of those simulations are +/-1.5dB from 200-20kHz with 5-6 parts that cost a LOT LESS than your Zoudio amp.
I don't see how you can have 'tons more bass' if the response is ruler flat. Seems to be a disconnect here that is not being explained.
FWIW, these drivers, while being lumpy, are not that hard to deal with. They have their own set of issues like any other set of drivers placed in a cabinet. Some are better left alone and not problematic, and others are more important.
I feel the disconnect here was your lack of know-how with passive networks.
Best regards,
Wolf
I don't see how you can have 'tons more bass' if the response is ruler flat. Seems to be a disconnect here that is not being explained.
FWIW, these drivers, while being lumpy, are not that hard to deal with. They have their own set of issues like any other set of drivers placed in a cabinet. Some are better left alone and not problematic, and others are more important.
I feel the disconnect here was your lack of know-how with passive networks.
Best regards,
Wolf
Wolf, what plot are you looking at? because it seems it is much more than that 🙂 When people say +/- 1db it means from a straight line across correct???or a slight downward angle to be 5db or so down @ 20hz ???
as far as bass, I am only able to measure mine down to about 200hz or so due to 5ms gate I have been using in REW. Is there a better way to figure out how it acts below that?? Do you measure yours outside ! ??? 🙂
as far as bass, I am only able to measure mine down to about 200hz or so due to 5ms gate I have been using in REW. Is there a better way to figure out how it acts below that?? Do you measure yours outside ! ??? 🙂
Of the 2 sims jorfila posted, the second one is +/-1.5dB- with 5-6 parts.
That is from a ruler-flat on-axis profile as far as tolerance goes, from 200-20k.
I don't know what you mean about the -5dB tilt at 20Hz, but some people favor a -5dB tilt from 20-20k; I am not one of those people. I favor flat response, not tilted, subdued, and murky.
I was mainly asking how you thought they had 'tons more bass', when the fact is you said they were +/-1dB from nominal and had not posted graphs for proof of concept for anyone here to see. I understand that gated measurements likely are only good to even 500Hz for most users, but that still does not show how you say these have 'tons more bass' and in fact are 'only +/-1dB.' These two statements you made do not work well with each other, and in fact contradict each other. Do you understand why/what I'm asking you now? You cannot have both.
While I could measure mine outside, it's not necessary since a nearfield plot will tell me what I wish to know in terms of extension.
Wolf
That is from a ruler-flat on-axis profile as far as tolerance goes, from 200-20k.
I don't know what you mean about the -5dB tilt at 20Hz, but some people favor a -5dB tilt from 20-20k; I am not one of those people. I favor flat response, not tilted, subdued, and murky.
I was mainly asking how you thought they had 'tons more bass', when the fact is you said they were +/-1dB from nominal and had not posted graphs for proof of concept for anyone here to see. I understand that gated measurements likely are only good to even 500Hz for most users, but that still does not show how you say these have 'tons more bass' and in fact are 'only +/-1dB.' These two statements you made do not work well with each other, and in fact contradict each other. Do you understand why/what I'm asking you now? You cannot have both.
While I could measure mine outside, it's not necessary since a nearfield plot will tell me what I wish to know in terms of extension.
Wolf
They have tons more bass now because they are currently emulating the FR of my Paradigm Studio 20.v5 speakers. I measured the paradigms, and tried to copy that measurement as exactly as I could. I used ALL of my available EQ settings to get it as close as I could. What is really impressive is, just how dialed in a smooth the Pardigms are. The sound is just soooooo good. My replicas sound good, but not that good. I have extracted every bit of sound from these things that I believe I possibly could. It would be almost impossible to get the same results from a passive crossover. With that said, they are like you said, definitely not the end all of speaker building solutions. The active setup just works better in this situation.
Next build will be passive 🙂
Next build will be passive 🙂
Then how can they be +/-1dB? It's just not possible to be both.
No- the active setup works better FOR YOU in this situation. You cannot place a blanket statement across it like that.
Wolf
No- the active setup works better FOR YOU in this situation. You cannot place a blanket statement across it like that.
Wolf
Wolf I think you are reading 2 different sentences. I apologize if I should have started a second paragraph. My wife always loves correcting my grammar. It's the only way we get better at anything 🙂
Yes I understand we are talking about +/- 1DB from a straight line like Kansas. Any "more bass" would indicate a deviation from that path !
I appreciate your feedback on my babblings. I really have learned quite a lot in the last year or so !
Yes I understand we are talking about +/- 1DB from a straight line like Kansas. Any "more bass" would indicate a deviation from that path !
I appreciate your feedback on my babblings. I really have learned quite a lot in the last year or so !
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I don't know how I can comment and be fruitful when the 2 things you said about your build, and the same build for both comments, are apparently not both accurate for your build.
It makes NO SENSE that you describe your build as 2 criteria, without measurements to hold water, and then don't understand that they can't coincide. Then follow up by saying that they both don't apply, when you made the comments. If you make 2 statements about the same build, they should be factual, correct? I am having a hard time following your posts if what you say is not what you say. Make sense why I take issue with this?
So- since you have not supplied graphs, which is it? Is it flat +/-1dB *OR* is it 'tons more bass'? I'd really like to know.
I'm glad I've been helpful, but I can't be if you don't state things succinctly.
Best regards,
Wolf
It makes NO SENSE that you describe your build as 2 criteria, without measurements to hold water, and then don't understand that they can't coincide. Then follow up by saying that they both don't apply, when you made the comments. If you make 2 statements about the same build, they should be factual, correct? I am having a hard time following your posts if what you say is not what you say. Make sense why I take issue with this?
So- since you have not supplied graphs, which is it? Is it flat +/-1dB *OR* is it 'tons more bass'? I'd really like to know.
I'm glad I've been helpful, but I can't be if you don't state things succinctly.
Best regards,
Wolf
They were 2 different results of different settings.
1st one was as flat as I could get it.
2nd one was an emulation of the Paradigm speakers.
(both were active, so easy(enough) to change)
I far enjoyed the emulation of the paradigm speakers sound. Even though they were FAR from flat !
I had a talk with a friend last night about how he thinks BOSE are the best speakers there are. I asked him why? and his reponce was, "probably because I havn't heard anything better" 🙂
I do wish I knew enough about audio to infact create that sound that I really enjoy the most. But alaas I do not. So I keep building, testing, measuring and failing. But isnt that what we all do ?? 🙂
1st one was as flat as I could get it.
2nd one was an emulation of the Paradigm speakers.
(both were active, so easy(enough) to change)
I far enjoyed the emulation of the paradigm speakers sound. Even though they were FAR from flat !
I had a talk with a friend last night about how he thinks BOSE are the best speakers there are. I asked him why? and his reponce was, "probably because I havn't heard anything better" 🙂
I do wish I knew enough about audio to infact create that sound that I really enjoy the most. But alaas I do not. So I keep building, testing, measuring and failing. But isnt that what we all do ?? 🙂
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