Actually there is also another thing to be considered. The sound is better when the modules are warmed up. 50 degrees is no problem at all. So you can use it safely as is. I have made plenty of amps exactly like this one with a 1 mm. steel sheet bottom as a cooler. Even with paint on top (use thermal grease) It works fine, even if the modules get a liitle warmer. Still everything is dimensioned at 100 degrees C, so there is no danger...
A 1U all aluminium case with 2 channels @ 200 Watts (i.e. a Predator SE amplifier) gets about 8 degrees hotter than ambient
(when using applied Gate Drive Voltage) On top of the enclosure. With the internal Gate Drive it gets about 16 degrees hotter.
🙂
A 1U all aluminium case with 2 channels @ 200 Watts (i.e. a Predator SE amplifier) gets about 8 degrees hotter than ambient
(when using applied Gate Drive Voltage) On top of the enclosure. With the internal Gate Drive it gets about 16 degrees hotter.
🙂
Thanks Lars,
I need to crack on with the rest of the design, so I will leave things as they are for the time being.
The 50C mentioned is the temp of the steel case above the modules, and not the temp of the modules themselves. However, actually I think the modules may be slightly cooler than that in fact (makes sense if you think about it).
The heat is going to be an issue mainly when I have a stack of 4 amps all above each other, and then want to put them out of sight in an AV cabinet of some sort. Now air flow will become an issue I think, so I want to redesign the next few modules to run as cool as possible to avoid problems later.
The same "heat" question really to Bruno since I want to get hold of a couple of the UCD 400 modules to compare against the Zappulse. (I have 4 Zappulse to compare against, and whichever turns out to be best gets to go on the main speakers and the others do subwoofer and surround duties). I would like to put these things in a nice 1U steel case with alu side panels. Would you recommend adding a couple of small heatsinks?
Thanks all for the advice. It's very helpful
I need to crack on with the rest of the design, so I will leave things as they are for the time being.
The 50C mentioned is the temp of the steel case above the modules, and not the temp of the modules themselves. However, actually I think the modules may be slightly cooler than that in fact (makes sense if you think about it).
The heat is going to be an issue mainly when I have a stack of 4 amps all above each other, and then want to put them out of sight in an AV cabinet of some sort. Now air flow will become an issue I think, so I want to redesign the next few modules to run as cool as possible to avoid problems later.
The same "heat" question really to Bruno since I want to get hold of a couple of the UCD 400 modules to compare against the Zappulse. (I have 4 Zappulse to compare against, and whichever turns out to be best gets to go on the main speakers and the others do subwoofer and surround duties). I would like to put these things in a nice 1U steel case with alu side panels. Would you recommend adding a couple of small heatsinks?
Thanks all for the advice. It's very helpful
ewildgoose,
You might notice a theme in my questions !!! I am looking for good quality cases for amps.
You mention you would like to "put these things in a nice 1U steel case with alu side panels" do you have such a case in mind? I have been looking at 19inch rack stuff but I am having trouble deciding which ones are any good? I want a good quality case.
You might notice a theme in my questions !!! I am looking for good quality cases for amps.
You mention you would like to "put these things in a nice 1U steel case with alu side panels" do you have such a case in mind? I have been looking at 19inch rack stuff but I am having trouble deciding which ones are any good? I want a good quality case.
http://www.par-metal.com/20series.htm
http://www.audiokit.it/ITAENG/Cabinet/HI-FI2000/HI-FI2000-Galaxy.htm
I have the Galaxy things from Audiokit, but they are steel chassis with alu sides and front/rear panels. They look nice, but are barely enough to cool this Zappulse, (although we havent yet ruled out there being something wrong with the Zappulse or the idiot user who built them...)
I need to find some smart "feet" for these things though.... Any offers? (Quite tall please, plenty of airflow)
http://www.audiokit.it/ITAENG/Cabinet/HI-FI2000/HI-FI2000-Galaxy.htm
I have the Galaxy things from Audiokit, but they are steel chassis with alu sides and front/rear panels. They look nice, but are barely enough to cool this Zappulse, (although we havent yet ruled out there being something wrong with the Zappulse or the idiot user who built them...)
I need to find some smart "feet" for these things though.... Any offers? (Quite tall please, plenty of airflow)
HELP! I am looking for a SMPS for pair ZAPPULSE 2.2SE card/modules that could be bought off the shelf and hopefully wouldn't cost a krillion dollars. I would be using the amp output at 2 ohms and was advised to have the PS outputs at 60VDC with current capacity at 400VA per card/module. The primary use for the amp modules would be for low frequency.
I would appreciate any guidance as I am new to this forum and from what I read so far it seems to be a really good one to rely on or to point you in the right direction.
😕 😕 😕
I would appreciate any guidance as I am new to this forum and from what I read so far it seems to be a really good one to rely on or to point you in the right direction.
😕 😕 😕
Let me know what you find on a SMPS, 'cause I'd love the same.
The ZAPpusle 2.2SE has a max V of +-72V
At 60V you'd be under utilizing the modules.
One advantage with an SMPS is that this voltage could be locked in close to the max without danger of line voltage flux
It would seem.
The ZAPpusle 2.2SE has a max V of +-72V
At 60V you'd be under utilizing the modules.
One advantage with an SMPS is that this voltage could be locked in close to the max without danger of line voltage flux
It would seem.Thanks for your reply!
So why is it so difficult to find an off the shelf SMPS? All the newer "Series 2" and/or the latest entries from the pro amp manufacturers all have some sort of electronic switching supply to reduce the weight especially for the touring sound companies.
Less weight = Less fuel cost and when the hammer is down and they are mashing their motor down the highway this means a real cost savings especially at today's high cost of fuel!
I looked at a few SMPS from the Power One power supply group and I think they have something that will work but as I recall their price will make anyone blush. They make GREAT supplies and the cost clearly explains it.
Question: If you were to build up a conventional PS and use them for the Zappulse 2.2SE modules based on heavy duty low freq. use would you include voltage regulators in the PS circuit?
If so can you recommend a source and part number?
I've heard a lot of good things about these Zappulse modules but trying to get a supply built with the necessary parts has been and remains to be a pain (time and money). Custom transformer and beer can size caps don't exist on the shelf. Even the biggie parts companies won't even admit that these parts exist! Then the parts manufacturers can't supply for 8-12 weeks.
I've also had little or no response from Lars at LC Audio in regards to technical questions. One would think that he would want to promote the use of his products or turn me on to someone who has the detailed info. I have tried 3+ times and can't get the answers. Overall he seems to be really cool . . . he shows this in the products he designs.
So why is it so difficult to find an off the shelf SMPS? All the newer "Series 2" and/or the latest entries from the pro amp manufacturers all have some sort of electronic switching supply to reduce the weight especially for the touring sound companies.
Less weight = Less fuel cost and when the hammer is down and they are mashing their motor down the highway this means a real cost savings especially at today's high cost of fuel!
I looked at a few SMPS from the Power One power supply group and I think they have something that will work but as I recall their price will make anyone blush. They make GREAT supplies and the cost clearly explains it.
Question: If you were to build up a conventional PS and use them for the Zappulse 2.2SE modules based on heavy duty low freq. use would you include voltage regulators in the PS circuit?
If so can you recommend a source and part number?
I've heard a lot of good things about these Zappulse modules but trying to get a supply built with the necessary parts has been and remains to be a pain (time and money). Custom transformer and beer can size caps don't exist on the shelf. Even the biggie parts companies won't even admit that these parts exist! Then the parts manufacturers can't supply for 8-12 weeks.
I've also had little or no response from Lars at LC Audio in regards to technical questions. One would think that he would want to promote the use of his products or turn me on to someone who has the detailed info. I have tried 3+ times and can't get the answers. Overall he seems to be really cool . . . he shows this in the products he designs.
http://www.cadaudio.dk/hifiindex_en.htm
Has SMPS although I think the voltage might be to high or with the smallest model the VA rating too low
They also sel cases with heatsinked side panels. I believe those are Monacor cases but am not sure.
They also sel the tripath modules but for now it seems that zap pulse and UCD are superior sounding (I have not tried though, I own zappulse 2.2SE but have not yet build an amp out of those)
Has SMPS although I think the voltage might be to high or with the smallest model the VA rating too low
They also sel cases with heatsinked side panels. I believe those are Monacor cases but am not sure.
They also sel the tripath modules but for now it seems that zap pulse and UCD are superior sounding (I have not tried though, I own zappulse 2.2SE but have not yet build an amp out of those)
tgb said:I've also had little or no response from Lars at LC Audio in regards to technical questions. One would think that he would want to promote the use of his products or turn me on to someone who has the detailed info. I have tried 3+ times and can't get the answers. Overall he seems to be really cool . . . he shows this in the products he designs.
Are you using the right email address? I recently emailed him and got a quick and detailed response.
Q: Are you using the right email address? I recently emailed him and got a quick and detailed response.
R: This is the address that Lars used to respond lc@lcaudio.dk. He replied
"Please send your questions to me, i will try to help you as best as
possible.
Best regards
Lars Clausen"
I followed with my questions but no response. I put a read request on the email but did not get a confirmation. Maybe he didn't get my emails?
Anyone that any detaileed knowledge on the 2.2SE modules?
R: This is the address that Lars used to respond lc@lcaudio.dk. He replied
"Please send your questions to me, i will try to help you as best as
possible.
Best regards
Lars Clausen"
I followed with my questions but no response. I put a read request on the email but did not get a confirmation. Maybe he didn't get my emails?
Anyone that any detaileed knowledge on the 2.2SE modules?
LCaudio has always been quite responsive and quick for me, but I've always dealt with Henrick: henrik@lcaudio.dk
He runs down any question I have within a few days.
If you buy from Lcaudio you can get a transformer and predator power supply from them. Everything you need to run, and they don't charge shipping worldwide (right now)
Tell Henrick you want the predator power supply for the 2.2se that includes the 80V 15000uF caps.
Ask him for the 2x50V with the extra gate winding.
You'll be lugging around 15l+b's just for this. (This may not be available yet from lcaudio - but you can get a 2x50 from parts express or plitron)
Everthing else weighs next to nothing, generates very little heat, and takes up very little space. You'll be sad to lug around this big transformer 'cause everything else is so cool.
IF you get the softstart, it can be wired for 120V by shorting the jumper marked on the board.
I wouldn't bother with voltage regulation as this should be fairly safe margin. Plus you'd be adding all kinds of weight and heat from the regulation.
He runs down any question I have within a few days.
If you buy from Lcaudio you can get a transformer and predator power supply from them. Everything you need to run, and they don't charge shipping worldwide (right now)
Tell Henrick you want the predator power supply for the 2.2se that includes the 80V 15000uF caps.
Ask him for the 2x50V with the extra gate winding.
You'll be lugging around 15l+b's just for this. (This may not be available yet from lcaudio - but you can get a 2x50 from parts express or plitron)
Everthing else weighs next to nothing, generates very little heat, and takes up very little space. You'll be sad to lug around this big transformer 'cause everything else is so cool.
IF you get the softstart, it can be wired for 120V by shorting the jumper marked on the board.
I wouldn't bother with voltage regulation as this should be fairly safe margin. Plus you'd be adding all kinds of weight and heat from the regulation.
"http://www.cadaudio.dk/hifiindex_en.htm
Has SMPS ..."
I contacted these folks before - they wouldn't sell to me since I wasn't an OEM.
Has SMPS ..."
I contacted these folks before - they wouldn't sell to me since I wasn't an OEM.
What do you want to know? Perhaps I can help?
However, I agree, Lars often doesnt respond to my questions, although before I bought some stuff he used to reply within hours... Not a good advert for LCAudio... But their aftersales returns policy is excellent, I have blown up two modules and they replace them with no questions asked... Very nice
Oh well
Ed
However, I agree, Lars often doesnt respond to my questions, although before I bought some stuff he used to reply within hours... Not a good advert for LCAudio... But their aftersales returns policy is excellent, I have blown up two modules and they replace them with no questions asked... Very nice
Oh well
Ed
Thanks for the replies!
REPLY BACK TO raintalk:
Unfortunetly when I checked I had also listed Henrik along with Lars on the email with all my questions. Do you think for some reason they didn't get the email I sent? Should I resend it?
REPLY BACK TO both raintalk & ewildgoose:
The Yeah But is I was told by the US Distributor and it was more or less in agreement from Lars that to run the 2.2SE modules into 2 Ohms and since they will be used for low freq and be pounding out high a RMS output that I should increase the caps to somewhere around 80,000 mfd. Which are about beer can size!
My goal is to put 4 modules in the same box. My question to LCAudio was are these large caps sized for use with Four or Two of the 2.2SE modules? No reply as of this writing.
They recommended 60VDC for the PS input at 400VA to each 2.2SE. As I calculate that out this would mean I would need 84VAC on the secondary side of the transformer. Anybody think differently?
The only way I can see to limit each pair of modules to 400VA is to have seperate taps on the transformer Y/N? Which means I would need 4 taps at 84VAC?
I have been basing my information from the LCAudio Cookbook that I found on the LCAudio website. The illustrations show that I can parallel two 2.2SE modules from the tranformer/bridge PS circuit.
Any suggestions? Besides I am going to need a crane as the transformer weighs in around 30lbs!
Hence is my search for a SMPS. Until then I guess it is the conventional route.
tgb
REPLY BACK TO raintalk:
Unfortunetly when I checked I had also listed Henrik along with Lars on the email with all my questions. Do you think for some reason they didn't get the email I sent? Should I resend it?
REPLY BACK TO both raintalk & ewildgoose:
The Yeah But is I was told by the US Distributor and it was more or less in agreement from Lars that to run the 2.2SE modules into 2 Ohms and since they will be used for low freq and be pounding out high a RMS output that I should increase the caps to somewhere around 80,000 mfd. Which are about beer can size!
My goal is to put 4 modules in the same box. My question to LCAudio was are these large caps sized for use with Four or Two of the 2.2SE modules? No reply as of this writing.
They recommended 60VDC for the PS input at 400VA to each 2.2SE. As I calculate that out this would mean I would need 84VAC on the secondary side of the transformer. Anybody think differently?
The only way I can see to limit each pair of modules to 400VA is to have seperate taps on the transformer Y/N? Which means I would need 4 taps at 84VAC?
I have been basing my information from the LCAudio Cookbook that I found on the LCAudio website. The illustrations show that I can parallel two 2.2SE modules from the tranformer/bridge PS circuit.
Any suggestions? Besides I am going to need a crane as the transformer weighs in around 30lbs!
Hence is my search for a SMPS. Until then I guess it is the conventional route.
tgb
tgb said:
How do you plan on doing this so that you need 84Vac secondaries?
I guess you mean across the secondary, like rail to rail peak? Then you'd have 42Vac secondaries, should be fine but you might want to allow for a 10% mains overvoltage.
I dont' think you need to worry about limiting VA rating to 400, more can only help.
Most of the time i answer right away the e-mail questions i get. But sometimes i am doing other work, and therefore have less time to answer questions. However i think most answers are being adequately answered by my technician Henrik.
However if you take a little consideration when you send me questions, that i usually have to answer them within a minute or two. Think about these questions:
Example 1:
How can i upgrade my Xechnics CDQ2300A (japanese version).
(Brand and model ficticious).
For me to answer that question i would first have to search the internet for informations about the model. Especially technical informations. Then i would have to analyze the circuit if available, and then come up with a plan, that the customer can then consider.
As you may have figured out, this question will never be answered, as there is simply not enough hours in a day.
Example 2:
I have bought in 1995 a xetro P100 amplifier and it worked very good until the capacitors finally wore out, and the bass got slimmer and slimmer. They were Niccon's 10000 uF 80V, blue color. I used for this amplifier unbalanced line cables with double screen until 1998, where i tried unscreened cables. ........
and two pages later ......
My cousin from Spain also have the same pxxoneer DVD player, and could not play some area region 1 DVD's. Now the problem is that his wife took mst of his region 2 DVD's when they got divoirced a couple of years ago... ....
..............................................................
As you can see here the amount of unrelated information the question (if it can be found in there at all) is wrapped in is so great that no body has the time to read the mail at all. And therefore it will of course not be answered. We get a lot of this kind of mail's and they are often longer than the 2 pages. 😀
Example 3:
Hi LC
I have some questions:
1..You recommend +- 60V supplies, does this correspond to 84 V AC?
2..Your transformers are 2 x 42 V. Is this AC voltage?
3..Will they produce 60 V
4..I attach a photo of my setup, can you see something wrong. I hear
humming when i plug the phono plug in, but it is not there when the plug is out.
Best regards
.............................................
Here you can see that the questions can be answered simply and quickly. This type of mail will most certainly be answered right away.
1..Yes, but as 2 x 42 V AC.
2..Yes
3..Yes
4..Try connecting the input GND to the power supply midpiont directly with a wire. See bugfix page here : http://www.lcaudio.dk/com/zp2opg.htm
By attaching a photo of the setup we may be able to help faster, because we have something to work with. Remember as a starting rule, if you did everything right, as described in the cookbook, there is a 99.99% chance that you will not experience any problem at all. There is no answer like: yeah we know the module doesnt work because........
Sometimes + and - power wires are interchanged, sometimes the GND of the input plug is connected to - input (not GND as it should).
We can help you locate the mistake, and a photo attached can be a great help for us.
This way it's faster for us to answer the quesions and hey give more meaning to the one who asked the questions.
I hope this helps to get a better hit rate on your questions sent to us.
Best regards
Lars Clausen
BTW: I can also not answer qustions whenever i attend hifi shows. (For obvious reasons). For example from Nov 1st to Nov. 8th i will be offline attending tha High End show in Bucharest, Romania 😉
However if you take a little consideration when you send me questions, that i usually have to answer them within a minute or two. Think about these questions:
Example 1:
How can i upgrade my Xechnics CDQ2300A (japanese version).
(Brand and model ficticious).
For me to answer that question i would first have to search the internet for informations about the model. Especially technical informations. Then i would have to analyze the circuit if available, and then come up with a plan, that the customer can then consider.
As you may have figured out, this question will never be answered, as there is simply not enough hours in a day.
Example 2:
I have bought in 1995 a xetro P100 amplifier and it worked very good until the capacitors finally wore out, and the bass got slimmer and slimmer. They were Niccon's 10000 uF 80V, blue color. I used for this amplifier unbalanced line cables with double screen until 1998, where i tried unscreened cables. ........
and two pages later ......
My cousin from Spain also have the same pxxoneer DVD player, and could not play some area region 1 DVD's. Now the problem is that his wife took mst of his region 2 DVD's when they got divoirced a couple of years ago... ....
..............................................................
As you can see here the amount of unrelated information the question (if it can be found in there at all) is wrapped in is so great that no body has the time to read the mail at all. And therefore it will of course not be answered. We get a lot of this kind of mail's and they are often longer than the 2 pages. 😀
Example 3:
Hi LC
I have some questions:
1..You recommend +- 60V supplies, does this correspond to 84 V AC?
2..Your transformers are 2 x 42 V. Is this AC voltage?
3..Will they produce 60 V
4..I attach a photo of my setup, can you see something wrong. I hear
humming when i plug the phono plug in, but it is not there when the plug is out.
Best regards
.............................................
Here you can see that the questions can be answered simply and quickly. This type of mail will most certainly be answered right away.
1..Yes, but as 2 x 42 V AC.
2..Yes
3..Yes
4..Try connecting the input GND to the power supply midpiont directly with a wire. See bugfix page here : http://www.lcaudio.dk/com/zp2opg.htm
By attaching a photo of the setup we may be able to help faster, because we have something to work with. Remember as a starting rule, if you did everything right, as described in the cookbook, there is a 99.99% chance that you will not experience any problem at all. There is no answer like: yeah we know the module doesnt work because........
Sometimes + and - power wires are interchanged, sometimes the GND of the input plug is connected to - input (not GND as it should).
We can help you locate the mistake, and a photo attached can be a great help for us.
This way it's faster for us to answer the quesions and hey give more meaning to the one who asked the questions.
I hope this helps to get a better hit rate on your questions sent to us.
Best regards
Lars Clausen
BTW: I can also not answer qustions whenever i attend hifi shows. (For obvious reasons). For example from Nov 1st to Nov. 8th i will be offline attending tha High End show in Bucharest, Romania 😉
(very offtopic sry)
Lars, is there a problem with the web site ( http://www.lcaudio.com/ ). It will load very slowly (if at all). I first noticed this this morning. Keeps saying "transferfing data from www.lcaudio.dk...
(I use Firefox and 2.2 Mbit connection)
Hm, don't know what happened, but a minute after I posted this it seems to load a lot faster...
Lars, is there a problem with the web site ( http://www.lcaudio.com/ ). It will load very slowly (if at all). I first noticed this this morning. Keeps saying "transferfing data from www.lcaudio.dk...
(I use Firefox and 2.2 Mbit connection)
Hm, don't know what happened, but a minute after I posted this it seems to load a lot faster...
tgb said:
OK - now I get it. You're planning to run at 2ohms on the 2.2SE and therefore it's recommended you run at a lower voltage (60V)
Once option I was looking at for SMPS was that some do allow you to stack them to obtain voltages. For example you could stack 5x12V to get 60V.
This may be cheap enough since you plan on having many ZAPpulses in the same box. You also increase your rate of powersupply failure by the number of powersupplies you use in series. But then again, maybe you could figure out some kind of power-supply RAID configuration!?!? Like have a couple of hot spares in case one fails.
Reply To Lars Clausen:
OK I didn't realize that you were overwhelmed with email.
Seeing that you mainly deal with the semi-pro/consumer market I now see where you could be buried with emails to help with out of the ordinary requests.
I mainly deal with the pro audio projects and I will admit that I too get some wild requests that do not deal with products that I sell or service. Yes. I also try to help others. . . it is the nature of the beast. Besides I like to try and help where I can.
The detailed email that I sent to you and Henrik was 5 weeks ago.
I thought it was pretty straightforward as it contained a CAD dwg file of the power supply that I wanted to verify with you or Henrik using Four of the 2.2SE modules all powering a 2 Ohm loads. I did not get a reply or even a response that you got the email.
Since your specifications on the 2.2SE are rated at 2 Ohms I needed some basic help as the design of this project requires 2 Ohm loads and it only seemed reasonable that you would want to help seeing that this is leading to a quantity purchase.
I will send the email again and hopefully you or Henrik can review the design, advise and reply with comments in the next few days.
Thanks for reponding
tgb 😱 🙂
OK I didn't realize that you were overwhelmed with email.
Seeing that you mainly deal with the semi-pro/consumer market I now see where you could be buried with emails to help with out of the ordinary requests.
I mainly deal with the pro audio projects and I will admit that I too get some wild requests that do not deal with products that I sell or service. Yes. I also try to help others. . . it is the nature of the beast. Besides I like to try and help where I can.
The detailed email that I sent to you and Henrik was 5 weeks ago.
I thought it was pretty straightforward as it contained a CAD dwg file of the power supply that I wanted to verify with you or Henrik using Four of the 2.2SE modules all powering a 2 Ohm loads. I did not get a reply or even a response that you got the email.
Since your specifications on the 2.2SE are rated at 2 Ohms I needed some basic help as the design of this project requires 2 Ohm loads and it only seemed reasonable that you would want to help seeing that this is leading to a quantity purchase.
I will send the email again and hopefully you or Henrik can review the design, advise and reply with comments in the next few days.
Thanks for reponding
tgb 😱 🙂
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