Duck-Twacy said:
2.3 is a good deal better than 2.2 but not quite as good as 700XE.
I contacted LC Audio and they hadn't delievered any 700XE as far as they knew...so how and from where did your supplier get your modules? From the underground class d movement ? 😀
Anzgar said:
2.3 is a good deal better than 2.2 but not quite as good as 700XE.
I contacted LC Audio and they hadn't delievered any 700XE as far as they knew...so how and from where did your supplier get your modules? From the underground class d movement ? 😀
Black market.😀
Maybe I got yours ??
😉
I don't know, we'll see. Maybe these are still from the first batch. Maybe people at LCaudio don't speak too each other anymore....
From my supllier I understood there was a problem with certain electrostatic systems (low impedance at high freq.). Actually he didn't say these where new modules (but also I didn't ask that directly. Only presumed it would, because I didn't fetch them 2 months ago when the problems where mentioned here).
😉 I don't know, we'll see. Maybe these are still from the first batch. Maybe people at LCaudio don't speak too each other anymore....
From my supllier I understood there was a problem with certain electrostatic systems (low impedance at high freq.). Actually he didn't say these where new modules (but also I didn't ask that directly. Only presumed it would, because I didn't fetch them 2 months ago when the problems where mentioned here).
Anzgar said:
2.3 is a good deal better than 2.2 but not quite as good as 700XE.
I contacted LC Audio and they hadn't delievered any 700XE as far as they knew...so how and from where did your supplier get your modules? From the underground class d movement ? 😀
Did they mention how far they where in shipping out som working modules?
ChevyDK said:
I mailed to Lars tech.support and he had heard nothing about any progress but he forwarded my mail to the real boss Gert hoping that he would give me a reply.
funni Fred
Hi,
oh man this fred is funny 🙂 Had a good laugh 🙂
This is a especially good one "2.3 is a good deal better than 2.2 but not quite as good as 700XE." Q.: Which X700E??? Have You already reached the state of virtual HiFi-experinence? 😀
Just kidding.
I admit I wouldn´t have the nerve to wait such long to buy anything from a company with such a miserable customer service. Man wake up! This thread is going on for over half a year now. And up till now You haven´t listened to just one reliable working module but heard dozends of stupid excusations.
If You really want to hear an excellent sounding, reliable Amp give the modules of HiFiAkademie a try. He´s got a good reputation for customer service too. And if You need a electrostat-stable version its no prob too. And they work stable into these loads!
Because of the load dependency of the frequency response of these amps the output filter might need a slight redesign. The calculation for these 2 Elements takes less than a minute. So...is this just another excusation??? If there is more to redesign than just that, I´d assume that the whole design itself has serious problems.
jauu
Calvin
Hi,
oh man this fred is funny 🙂 Had a good laugh 🙂
This is a especially good one "2.3 is a good deal better than 2.2 but not quite as good as 700XE." Q.: Which X700E??? Have You already reached the state of virtual HiFi-experinence? 😀
Just kidding.
I admit I wouldn´t have the nerve to wait such long to buy anything from a company with such a miserable customer service. Man wake up! This thread is going on for over half a year now. And up till now You haven´t listened to just one reliable working module but heard dozends of stupid excusations.
If You really want to hear an excellent sounding, reliable Amp give the modules of HiFiAkademie a try. He´s got a good reputation for customer service too. And if You need a electrostat-stable version its no prob too. And they work stable into these loads!
Because of the load dependency of the frequency response of these amps the output filter might need a slight redesign. The calculation for these 2 Elements takes less than a minute. So...is this just another excusation??? If there is more to redesign than just that, I´d assume that the whole design itself has serious problems.
jauu
Calvin
Hi Calvin,
I largely agree with ya, but about these HiFiAkademie modules which I never heard of until now, just looking at the pic of it on their website shows a very.. poor layout. How good could they possibly sound?
Regards,
Chris
I largely agree with ya, but about these HiFiAkademie modules which I never heard of until now, just looking at the pic of it on their website shows a very.. poor layout. How good could they possibly sound?
Regards,
Chris
HiFi Akademie amp
Hi,
the layout of the actual Version (Rev.3) is a professional 2layer board. Just the 1st Version used a single layer board.
I don´t agree with ClassD that it is layouted badly. Instead I regard it as a sign of proper layout and design, that the amp works with just a single-layer board. Compare this to other digi-amps especially UCD, where a great deal of design effort lies within the board layout to get the whole thing stable at all (4layer in the meantime? not because its so superior to a single sided board but just because it won´t work otherwise!).
The HiFiAkademie´s are built in through hole technology only, because they are intended as a real DIY solution -buying built up components and just putting them into a nice housing is no DIY imo. The same holds true with tuning an tweaking.
You might even etch Your own PCB if You intend to and get a stable working amp. You may buy components from just the double sided PCB, Capacitors or Power-FETs on up to a a fully assembled and working amp with housing.
The Akademie´s amp is a self oscillating hyteresis amp with feedback taken at the output filter´s input. I tested them and must say, that I really liked them from the very first tones they played. I liked them even more when they prooved to play stable when driving my ESL-panels (they just need an amp that can cope with severe capacitive loading with up to 84° phaseshift!). They sounded very well even though the output filter was designed for ~6Ohms load and not for ESL loads down to 0.8Ohm. They outperformed quite easy my beloved Rotel -which is one of the very few amps that is able to drive the ESL properly. They are imo a very priceworthy solution for the beginner as well as for the hardcore-DIYer. From scratch to fully assembled professional solution You simply choose what You like or what You are able to built. Mr. Reith has got a very good reputation with regard to support, so risk of success is very high 😉
He offers a neat little Preamp too based on the PGA2310 and using a touchpanel-diplay and an IR. Gives a nice looking amp pair that I regard worth every penny compared to other solutions.
Summed up:
- professional electrical design with very good components
- professional cool looking housings
- easy handling of the amps and Preamps. You won´t read a manual even there are no knobs on the front plates.
- stable, flawless working amps regardless of the load
- excellent support
- very competitive prices
At least in Germany You can order test amps for a short testing time. So You can easily evaluate the amps within Your system.
Now Thats what I call service 😎
jauu
Calvin
ps. habve a look at www.hifiakademie.de
You can find a good explanation about different digi-amp topologies on the site too. So its worth reading anyway
Hi,
the layout of the actual Version (Rev.3) is a professional 2layer board. Just the 1st Version used a single layer board.
I don´t agree with ClassD that it is layouted badly. Instead I regard it as a sign of proper layout and design, that the amp works with just a single-layer board. Compare this to other digi-amps especially UCD, where a great deal of design effort lies within the board layout to get the whole thing stable at all (4layer in the meantime? not because its so superior to a single sided board but just because it won´t work otherwise!).
The HiFiAkademie´s are built in through hole technology only, because they are intended as a real DIY solution -buying built up components and just putting them into a nice housing is no DIY imo. The same holds true with tuning an tweaking.
You might even etch Your own PCB if You intend to and get a stable working amp. You may buy components from just the double sided PCB, Capacitors or Power-FETs on up to a a fully assembled and working amp with housing.
The Akademie´s amp is a self oscillating hyteresis amp with feedback taken at the output filter´s input. I tested them and must say, that I really liked them from the very first tones they played. I liked them even more when they prooved to play stable when driving my ESL-panels (they just need an amp that can cope with severe capacitive loading with up to 84° phaseshift!). They sounded very well even though the output filter was designed for ~6Ohms load and not for ESL loads down to 0.8Ohm. They outperformed quite easy my beloved Rotel -which is one of the very few amps that is able to drive the ESL properly. They are imo a very priceworthy solution for the beginner as well as for the hardcore-DIYer. From scratch to fully assembled professional solution You simply choose what You like or what You are able to built. Mr. Reith has got a very good reputation with regard to support, so risk of success is very high 😉
He offers a neat little Preamp too based on the PGA2310 and using a touchpanel-diplay and an IR. Gives a nice looking amp pair that I regard worth every penny compared to other solutions.
Summed up:
- professional electrical design with very good components
- professional cool looking housings
- easy handling of the amps and Preamps. You won´t read a manual even there are no knobs on the front plates.
- stable, flawless working amps regardless of the load
- excellent support
- very competitive prices
At least in Germany You can order test amps for a short testing time. So You can easily evaluate the amps within Your system.
Now Thats what I call service 😎
jauu
Calvin
ps. habve a look at www.hifiakademie.de
You can find a good explanation about different digi-amp topologies on the site too. So its worth reading anyway
Re: HiFi Akademie amp
Hi Calvin,
A man of convictions, admirable.
-I'd first like to ask what your affiliation is with them, if any? That reaaaally sounded like a sales brochure. It also sounded like it was perhaps, the first class d amp you've heard? At least the first of the current generation, where even a bad one may sound rather decent, look at nuforce for example.
-I have to say that I'm guilty of commenting rather ignorantly on the layout, I don't understand a single word on that site, google translator doesn't do the best job of it, and I find very little information available there, not even something so basic as power ratings on their order page, or anywhere else. 400 euro... better be alot of power for that!! Hardly competitive as I see it.
Strange setup they seem to have, what's the deal? You pay to register and then are emailed the schematics and layout? What's the cost to register? From what I'm able to see it seems far too expensive for the obvious quality.
-It's near dangerous trying to step on UCD to make anything else look better, as it's a rather proven concept.
Let's take this point by point, and by the way, this really should be in its own thread!
"Compare this to other digi-amps especially UCD, where a great deal of design effort lies within the board layout to get the whole thing stable at all (4layer in the meantime? not because its so superior to a single sided board but just because it won´t work otherwise!)."
"Digital" amps has proudly become a dirty word around here, let's just call 'em class d, please. There's not the least bit (pun) digital about any of the amps under discussion, they're fully analog.
You can actually build your own UCD from scrach, a la true DIY! I have, both on a breadboard and in P2P, the cost was only time, and a few broken down toys to salvage from. It was fully optimized by ear alone. Tell me more about its stability?
You're correct in that there is a good deal of design effort that's gone into the layout of the UCD modules. I have to say, somehow, you really got the wrong impression on that.
Stability is inherent to the design, not the layout. The layout and SMT is done with respect to lower emissions, and they're at a level which I highly doubt this HIFIAkademie amp can come close to matching, being SMT as it stands.
The low EMI of UCD modules allows _total freedom_ when it comes to building your project as you need not worry about placing them next to one another or even take any great or unusual measures in terms of added shielding etc.
You simply cannot compare that to through hole technology, for which the only benefit would be the ease of selling it as a kit to the DIYer who's afraid to work with SMT.
4 Layer is only seen on the UCD700, where the higher power levels make it more of a requirement than a luxury, that same module is capable of more than 1500 watts!! The UCD400 is still just a 2 layer board.
I'd bet they can't come close to UCD in sonic performance, user friendlyness, or cost. Also, there's simply no complaints about customer support from Hypex, where they seem to excel as well.
So to sum up:
-Components are through hole, will have high EMI and be more susceptible to it in terms of a higher noise floor. I see no graphs on that site and it seems idiotic to say the least to require one to register _before_ having the chance to even view them.
-Cool housings??? Put it in a shoebox.... who cares, especially for DIY, it has to sound good first. Nice housings are a dime a dozen.
- Seems extremely expensive for having to do so much of the work yourself for an obviously inferior product compared to other solutions... speaking of which
-You really picked the wrong amp to make your points with, but a valiant effort!
Best Regards,
Chris
Calvin said:
Hi Calvin,
A man of convictions, admirable.
-I'd first like to ask what your affiliation is with them, if any? That reaaaally sounded like a sales brochure. It also sounded like it was perhaps, the first class d amp you've heard? At least the first of the current generation, where even a bad one may sound rather decent, look at nuforce for example.
-I have to say that I'm guilty of commenting rather ignorantly on the layout, I don't understand a single word on that site, google translator doesn't do the best job of it, and I find very little information available there, not even something so basic as power ratings on their order page, or anywhere else. 400 euro... better be alot of power for that!! Hardly competitive as I see it.
Strange setup they seem to have, what's the deal? You pay to register and then are emailed the schematics and layout? What's the cost to register? From what I'm able to see it seems far too expensive for the obvious quality.
-It's near dangerous trying to step on UCD to make anything else look better, as it's a rather proven concept.
Let's take this point by point, and by the way, this really should be in its own thread!
"Compare this to other digi-amps especially UCD, where a great deal of design effort lies within the board layout to get the whole thing stable at all (4layer in the meantime? not because its so superior to a single sided board but just because it won´t work otherwise!)."
"Digital" amps has proudly become a dirty word around here, let's just call 'em class d, please. There's not the least bit (pun) digital about any of the amps under discussion, they're fully analog.
You can actually build your own UCD from scrach, a la true DIY! I have, both on a breadboard and in P2P, the cost was only time, and a few broken down toys to salvage from. It was fully optimized by ear alone. Tell me more about its stability?
You're correct in that there is a good deal of design effort that's gone into the layout of the UCD modules. I have to say, somehow, you really got the wrong impression on that.
Stability is inherent to the design, not the layout. The layout and SMT is done with respect to lower emissions, and they're at a level which I highly doubt this HIFIAkademie amp can come close to matching, being SMT as it stands.
The low EMI of UCD modules allows _total freedom_ when it comes to building your project as you need not worry about placing them next to one another or even take any great or unusual measures in terms of added shielding etc.
You simply cannot compare that to through hole technology, for which the only benefit would be the ease of selling it as a kit to the DIYer who's afraid to work with SMT.
4 Layer is only seen on the UCD700, where the higher power levels make it more of a requirement than a luxury, that same module is capable of more than 1500 watts!! The UCD400 is still just a 2 layer board.
I'd bet they can't come close to UCD in sonic performance, user friendlyness, or cost. Also, there's simply no complaints about customer support from Hypex, where they seem to excel as well.
So to sum up:
-Components are through hole, will have high EMI and be more susceptible to it in terms of a higher noise floor. I see no graphs on that site and it seems idiotic to say the least to require one to register _before_ having the chance to even view them.
-Cool housings??? Put it in a shoebox.... who cares, especially for DIY, it has to sound good first. Nice housings are a dime a dozen.
- Seems extremely expensive for having to do so much of the work yourself for an obviously inferior product compared to other solutions... speaking of which
-You really picked the wrong amp to make your points with, but a valiant effort!
Best Regards,
Chris
Hi,
sorry to say, but "....commenting rather ignorantly...." is just the the way it feels to me
especially when You haven´t understood a word!
- The price is always für a completed and testet working board, which means You just have to add a power-trannie to have a complete functioning stereo-amp. If You build up the amp Yourself You can reduce the price significantly.
- Its just the layout of the PCB and the actual parts list that You need a registration for. 60% of the registration fee is used as a price reduction when You order something. The reduction still counts when You place second orders or more later on.
You´ll find specs for e.g under ´Poweramp-Leistungsdaten´
In terms of D-amps the 250W don´t seem to be that much, but to be honest...I regard a LS that needs more power to sing rather a misconception than a masterpiece
PA-uses not taken into count hereby.
The basic toplogy as well as other Digi-amp topologies are explained on the site too in the free zone. So anybody experienced in D-amp design can draw his own qualified conclusions.
- I agree that UCD has reached the status of a proven design, but it might not be the one and only.
In my evaluation runs they were not the winners. Not in technical nor in sonic terms. Admittantly my needs are a bit more special, because of me building and using Electrostats, so others may have other experiences -or similar- with less critical loads. On the other hand, which speaker could possibly top an good ESL when it comes to sonics and stability criteria?? None, of course! 😀
And what happens if You need a different output filter for e.g for Your load demands? Would You be able to turn a special inductor or wouldn´t You, simply because You can´t get Your fingers on the special core and the amp seller won´t help You out either?
Stability is a matter of design in first place, Yes, but dealing with higher freqs and short rise- and fall times it can be a matter of layout too. A global feedback design is in this regard more prone to oscillation than local feedback designs, that decouple the load from the input.
- To be able to get a good preamp and housings too makes the HiFiAkademie offer a round thing. You might not like the looks or give a damn on optics, but taste is not to discuss. The design of the housing itself is very functional and straightforward and suits the application. For anybody erecting on high numbers in ´Size´ or ´Power´, go take Your money to a good psychologist or penis surgeon 😀
But to cut this short. I´m not dicussing or bashing UCD and their distributors as well as I´m not affiliated to HiFiAkademie in any way other that I evaluated the modules for my purposes.
My opinion is based on comparison not on assumption and so is my ranking. I´m not at all interested in betting, so You (classd4sure) will have to find someone else who bets on Your assumptions.
I just might add, that the risk of loosing could be high
Since this thread is about the LC-modules I mentioned an alternative that sounds excellent to my ears and delivers good service at a competitive price. UCD may be a different alternative, but thats not me to decide.
jauu
Calvin
sorry to say, but "....commenting rather ignorantly...." is just the the way it feels to me
especially when You haven´t understood a word!- The price is always für a completed and testet working board, which means You just have to add a power-trannie to have a complete functioning stereo-amp. If You build up the amp Yourself You can reduce the price significantly.
- Its just the layout of the PCB and the actual parts list that You need a registration for. 60% of the registration fee is used as a price reduction when You order something. The reduction still counts when You place second orders or more later on.
You´ll find specs for e.g under ´Poweramp-Leistungsdaten´
In terms of D-amps the 250W don´t seem to be that much, but to be honest...I regard a LS that needs more power to sing rather a misconception than a masterpiece
PA-uses not taken into count hereby.The basic toplogy as well as other Digi-amp topologies are explained on the site too in the free zone. So anybody experienced in D-amp design can draw his own qualified conclusions.
- I agree that UCD has reached the status of a proven design, but it might not be the one and only.
In my evaluation runs they were not the winners. Not in technical nor in sonic terms. Admittantly my needs are a bit more special, because of me building and using Electrostats, so others may have other experiences -or similar- with less critical loads. On the other hand, which speaker could possibly top an good ESL when it comes to sonics and stability criteria?? None, of course! 😀
And what happens if You need a different output filter for e.g for Your load demands? Would You be able to turn a special inductor or wouldn´t You, simply because You can´t get Your fingers on the special core and the amp seller won´t help You out either?
Stability is a matter of design in first place, Yes, but dealing with higher freqs and short rise- and fall times it can be a matter of layout too. A global feedback design is in this regard more prone to oscillation than local feedback designs, that decouple the load from the input.
- To be able to get a good preamp and housings too makes the HiFiAkademie offer a round thing. You might not like the looks or give a damn on optics, but taste is not to discuss. The design of the housing itself is very functional and straightforward and suits the application. For anybody erecting on high numbers in ´Size´ or ´Power´, go take Your money to a good psychologist or penis surgeon 😀
But to cut this short. I´m not dicussing or bashing UCD and their distributors as well as I´m not affiliated to HiFiAkademie in any way other that I evaluated the modules for my purposes.
My opinion is based on comparison not on assumption and so is my ranking. I´m not at all interested in betting, so You (classd4sure) will have to find someone else who bets on Your assumptions.
I just might add, that the risk of loosing could be high
Since this thread is about the LC-modules I mentioned an alternative that sounds excellent to my ears and delivers good service at a competitive price. UCD may be a different alternative, but thats not me to decide.
jauu
Calvin
Calvin said:
It's nice to hear about other modules and discuss other modules than only the LC Audio ones. As the original thread seems to have served its purpose or sooner never reached it.(Only Duck-Twacy has received a pair and I can't wait to hear how he experiencies its perfomance).I think we had better close this 'received today' thread and begin a new, something like 'Class D amplifiers and DIY modules and combine this original thread with the thread about Lars Clausens new modules.We would then have one thread to monitor instead of two and would not have to excuse
for being off topic.What do you think, gentlemen?
Calvin, if I look at how the modules are build by HifiAkademi I see the left and right channel combined on the pcb's. Even though it is a mirrored design I cannot help but think the design will limit the soundstage. Especially the preamp....well, this gives me the shivers. Oh, it may sound beautifull, but how on earth can you have a deep soundstage? I may be wrong ofcourse, maybe special tricks?
What kind of caps. do they use in the psu, they look very tiny?
What kind of caps. do they use in the psu, they look very tiny?
Bgt said:
I've explored the website further .... confusing as it may be, I still find none of the typical graphs one would expect, a few "thumbnails" under sub.... smoothed to 1/3 octave?
I've also found
http://hifiakademie.de/.?id=0.5.1&si=MTE0OTc2OTU3NS4xMTM2fDY2LjE4Ni44My4yMjB8IA
Keeping in mind that is in euro for an amp no more than 250w... and I hope that's per channel at least..? The cost is still laughable.
While it may be a "mirror" design I fear it's more of a mirror in terms of illusion rather than cancellation of power switching related EMI. Once again look to the UCD for a better example.
I guarantee you soundstage is limited, as is the noise floor, and maybe for 2X the price as anything remotely comparative (I'm thinking of a class T IC..at best).
Rather astronomical cost for a simple IC based preamp?
I don't know, but for someone who's tried the UCD modules you certainly had alot of misconceptions about them, what a horrible experience they must have been! Don't tell me they they didn't drive your ESL's??
I'd point out results will vary highly depending upon how well you've applied them, irrespective of their price. That's to say they may take a little more background knowledge/experience to make the most of, but well worth it I think, and all you need to know is freely available here, don't even have to "register" $$$... how much is that, by the way?
I'm afraid to say, my ignorance aside, I'm far from sold as to these being anything other than bottom line ... far overpriced, mediocre at best.
How much for a DIY version with balanced inputs? Oh, they don't have them.
Regards,
Chris
Calvin said:Hi,
- I agree that UCD has reached the status of a proven design, but it might not be the one and only.
In my evaluation runs they were not the winners. Not in technical nor in sonic terms. Admittantly my needs are a bit more special, because of me building and using Electrostats, so others may have other experiences -or similar- with less critical loads. On the other hand, which speaker could possibly top an good ESL when it comes to sonics and stability criteria?? None, of course! 😀
And what happens if You need a different output filter for e.g for Your load demands? Would You be able to turn a special inductor or wouldn´t You, simply because You can´t get Your fingers on the special core and the amp seller won´t help You out either?
Stability is a matter of design in first place, Yes, but dealing with higher freqs and short rise- and fall times it can be a matter of layout too. A global feedback design is in this regard more prone to oscillation than local feedback designs, that decouple the load from the input.
jauu
Calvin
The UcD amplifiers, is one of only amplifiers what is an “unconditional stable” design. We do not even need a Zobel Network (Resistor and capacitor at the output to keep the amplifier of seeing a load), to keep the amplifeir stable.
Driving an ESL loudspkear is in a way not so difficult, the problems is when the amplifier goes in clipping. At this moment the output signal is not more a true AC signal but a AC with a DC component. Because of this DC component you will drive the step up transformer of the ESL in saturation, and the amplifier will see on that moment (only during clipping) only the DC resistance of the step up transformer as a load. This is a very low impedance, so the amp will go in short circuit protection.
This counts for all amplifiers…. 😉
The only solution is to avoid clipping signals, or use a clip limiter.
Again the UcD is an unconditional stable design so it will have NO problem with driving the capacitive load of an ESL.
We have some very happy owners of several different ESL systems with UcD amplifiers…
Calvin said:
The coils what we use can’t easy made by your self, but coils what are used by other brands, toroidels are quite easy made by your self (altough we do not recommend to use toroidels…). If somebody post a question for a different L+C combination of an UcD amplifier we will respond on it….
Regards,
Jan-Peter
Hi,
@BGT
soundstage is a matter of freq-response of the speakers distribution character the positioning in the room and roomacoustics to name a few of importance. The effect of symmetrical layout is way down the line -if there is anyhow such an effect at all.
I´m not sure which caps are used, but I know that Panasonic caps are used in the power amp -but You are always free to change those for megahyped stuff 😉 By layout other caps as well as another input-OPamp are usable.
@classd4sure
Wattage and wattage can be some very different terms for different companies. Looking at the power supply and voltages the HiFiAkademie is quite comparable to UCD400. The numbers from HiFiAkademie are rated very conservatively. Comparing measurements -at least those I´ve seen- both amps perform on such a high level, that I wouldn´t rate one of them clearly superior.
Recently I saw some measurements of UCD180 and HiFIAkademie
http://www.ibtk.de/project/class_d/measurements/ucd_20050118.htm for UCD and
http://www.nacl.de/audiomap/test_sound.htm?CUSTOMERNO=15058668&t=de805583058.1149834382.132d56c2 for HiFIAkademie
keep in mind that the measurement setups differ (freq-range, soundcard, sampling freq, etc.) but on first glance I can´t see any really bad number that regards one or both amps not to perform on high quality levels.
As an addition I just got my hands on a EMV-measurement.
It was taken in a normal living room at 1m distance without any housing for the amps. The only difference between the two diagrams is a very slight rise in average value when the amp is on (lower diagrams blue curve). The peaks around 47MHz and 88-108MHz are TV and Radio stations. The amp doesn´t interfere with those. And incasing the amp (shielding) will reduce these values even further. So I don´t see any probs - and I haven´t experienced or heard of any in practise either.
BTW. This is another sign for a good layout of the PCB since especially the layout around the powerbridge is critical in EMI-terms.
External PS with quite long supply lines for example are definite NOs at this place. You have to have some caps as close to the bridge as possible.
Comparing prices of two UCD400 + PS I end up at the same price level as HiFiAkademie and for the preamp You have to consider that the touchscreen display, connectors and everything else is included.
The menu is programmed so that the preamp is very comfortable and flexible -from simple stereo to 5.1 channel- and still very easy and logical in handling. Even though You don´t have any knobs on the front imo everybody who is capable of handling a simple IR is capable to handle the amp too without consulting the manual. Sonically it played on a high level and I haven´t heard of anybody who criticized the sonics versus price relationship. Symmetrical in- and outputs are not foreseen in standard preamp versions. There is technically no significant advantage for home-users that outweigh the disadvantages, but You can easily mod the amp with 1:1 trannies or other solutions.
And again, it´s not my purpose to disregard the UCDs in any way. For my needs they were strong contenders but not prime choice.
Others may decide different, but at least is my decision based on my clear aims, comparisons and ears and not on -imo silly and mostly false- assumptions. The amps perform very well, that´s a fact.
The only mediocre at best performance is classd4sure´s 🙄
jauu
Calvin
@BGT
soundstage is a matter of freq-response of the speakers distribution character the positioning in the room and roomacoustics to name a few of importance. The effect of symmetrical layout is way down the line -if there is anyhow such an effect at all.
I´m not sure which caps are used, but I know that Panasonic caps are used in the power amp -but You are always free to change those for megahyped stuff 😉 By layout other caps as well as another input-OPamp are usable.
@classd4sure
Wattage and wattage can be some very different terms for different companies. Looking at the power supply and voltages the HiFiAkademie is quite comparable to UCD400. The numbers from HiFiAkademie are rated very conservatively. Comparing measurements -at least those I´ve seen- both amps perform on such a high level, that I wouldn´t rate one of them clearly superior.
Recently I saw some measurements of UCD180 and HiFIAkademie
http://www.ibtk.de/project/class_d/measurements/ucd_20050118.htm for UCD and
http://www.nacl.de/audiomap/test_sound.htm?CUSTOMERNO=15058668&t=de805583058.1149834382.132d56c2 for HiFIAkademie
keep in mind that the measurement setups differ (freq-range, soundcard, sampling freq, etc.) but on first glance I can´t see any really bad number that regards one or both amps not to perform on high quality levels.
As an addition I just got my hands on a EMV-measurement.
It was taken in a normal living room at 1m distance without any housing for the amps. The only difference between the two diagrams is a very slight rise in average value when the amp is on (lower diagrams blue curve). The peaks around 47MHz and 88-108MHz are TV and Radio stations. The amp doesn´t interfere with those. And incasing the amp (shielding) will reduce these values even further. So I don´t see any probs - and I haven´t experienced or heard of any in practise either.
BTW. This is another sign for a good layout of the PCB since especially the layout around the powerbridge is critical in EMI-terms.
External PS with quite long supply lines for example are definite NOs at this place. You have to have some caps as close to the bridge as possible.
Comparing prices of two UCD400 + PS I end up at the same price level as HiFiAkademie and for the preamp You have to consider that the touchscreen display, connectors and everything else is included.
The menu is programmed so that the preamp is very comfortable and flexible -from simple stereo to 5.1 channel- and still very easy and logical in handling. Even though You don´t have any knobs on the front imo everybody who is capable of handling a simple IR is capable to handle the amp too without consulting the manual. Sonically it played on a high level and I haven´t heard of anybody who criticized the sonics versus price relationship. Symmetrical in- and outputs are not foreseen in standard preamp versions. There is technically no significant advantage for home-users that outweigh the disadvantages, but You can easily mod the amp with 1:1 trannies or other solutions.
And again, it´s not my purpose to disregard the UCDs in any way. For my needs they were strong contenders but not prime choice.
Others may decide different, but at least is my decision based on my clear aims, comparisons and ears and not on -imo silly and mostly false- assumptions. The amps perform very well, that´s a fact.
The only mediocre at best performance is classd4sure´s 🙄
jauu
Calvin
I just talked to Hans Nielsen from LC Audio.
He told me that that 700XE was out of production now, and that they are on the way with a 800XE witch is a dual design (2 amps on one circuit board).
He promised to mail me as soon as he knew more.
He told me that that 700XE was out of production now, and that they are on the way with a 800XE witch is a dual design (2 amps on one circuit board).
He promised to mail me as soon as he knew more.
Calvin said:
Speakers are important but not the only influence on sonics. I know there is a lot of detail here in the forums about layout and whatsoever but small details can sometimes influence the sonics.
Duck-Twacy , hi
may I ask you to take a shot of your modules with some real camera, ofcourse when you find some free time to do that . . . ok regards, buy , ...
may I ask you to take a shot of your modules with some real camera, ofcourse when you find some free time to do that . . . ok regards, buy , ...
Jan-Peter said:
Hi Jan-Peter,
I never really understood the comments made that clipping adds a DC component to a signal. Rod Elliot has a great article on this http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm.
It seems though - that a amp could be designed to be stable through clipping. Possibly and amp could provide feedback to pre-signal processing to adjust to the clipping condition. Not just global limiting, but to do something more hi-fi - like compress the HF content as much as the LF it being compressed by clipping. Of course at extreme clipping, this would be the same as a clip limiter. But it would be nice to see an amp handle some lower levels of clipping gracefully.
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