I can't speak for Greg, but the Fostex FE207E, the new Hemp 8in drivers, ye olde favourite Pioneer B20 or possible wild-card in the form of the Monacor SP-200X spring to mind as possibilities. The Visation B200 in a cloned version of the Omega aperiodic box might also be on. Just add some damping to the rear of its basket to kill off that rising response. Won't go massively low though -big to 50Hz or so, then falling away around 12db per octave (I'm going be fallible memory here, but I don't think it's too far off).
Best
Scott
Best
Scott
Hmm, disturbing... But I think i'm going to build the BR-Version as a test enclosure. Will neither take much time nor much money for material. So I can find out if I like it´s sound at all. Maybe I could get happy with them in my small listening room (~ 20m²). If not, there´s still the pissibility to set up a FAST system or something else. 🙂
Greets!
Don't have a clue per se since I'm not familiar with any of the current 8"ers other than the Pioneer B20, which I would only recommend as one of the all time great bang/buck choices.
I got interested in audio at a time when an 8"er was a midrange driver in any self respecting system, with 15" being LF drivers. 12"ers were typically the choice for systems in smaller rooms, etc., so I have a hard time paying much attention to smaller drivers unless they're in a relatively high acoustic gain (huge) cab since small, wide BW, and high linear excursion has been mutually exclusive until very recently.
Just thinking in terms of what driver specs I would look for in a corner loaded TL app though....... since there's more acoustic gain, a lower Qt is an option and a low Fs combined with a high Vas allows a midbass 'hump' centered around 70 Hz to be tuned in for that critical 'slam' that gives live music the 'jungle boogie' beat the 'natives' crave. 😉 IOW, a prosound driver, which AFAIK, no current FR driver has similar specs. If true, then forget TL and instead use a simple midbass BLH like Klipsch's Rebel of days gone by, using a horn program that sims corner loading to find a suitable filter chamber Vb for your driver of choice.
Another, and probably better, option if the driver can handle the power requirements is to design for max flat in-room and use digital EQ to shape its midbass response.
For a frame of reference, when you go to a live pop/rock concert or cinema (other than an action movie), 40 Hz is typically > -24 dB, with peak SPL in the 60-80 Hz BW.
GM
Don't have a clue per se since I'm not familiar with any of the current 8"ers other than the Pioneer B20, which I would only recommend as one of the all time great bang/buck choices.
I got interested in audio at a time when an 8"er was a midrange driver in any self respecting system, with 15" being LF drivers. 12"ers were typically the choice for systems in smaller rooms, etc., so I have a hard time paying much attention to smaller drivers unless they're in a relatively high acoustic gain (huge) cab since small, wide BW, and high linear excursion has been mutually exclusive until very recently.
Just thinking in terms of what driver specs I would look for in a corner loaded TL app though....... since there's more acoustic gain, a lower Qt is an option and a low Fs combined with a high Vas allows a midbass 'hump' centered around 70 Hz to be tuned in for that critical 'slam' that gives live music the 'jungle boogie' beat the 'natives' crave. 😉 IOW, a prosound driver, which AFAIK, no current FR driver has similar specs. If true, then forget TL and instead use a simple midbass BLH like Klipsch's Rebel of days gone by, using a horn program that sims corner loading to find a suitable filter chamber Vb for your driver of choice.
Another, and probably better, option if the driver can handle the power requirements is to design for max flat in-room and use digital EQ to shape its midbass response.
For a frame of reference, when you go to a live pop/rock concert or cinema (other than an action movie), 40 Hz is typically > -24 dB, with peak SPL in the 60-80 Hz BW.
GM
Here is an option for a FE166E or FE167E based system:
Doc Bottlehead and Paul Joppa's S.E.X.y speakers:
http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/S.E.Xy speakers.html
If you read the threads on their forum re: it's creation, they were pretty unhappy with the performance of the 6.5 Fostexs in BR's. Thus the sealed/sub idea. Of course, if decent and very cheap powered subs aren't available to you, it isn't at all cost effective. It looks like a great appartment system to me.
I highly recommend the Hemp Drivers. You can put them in sealed boxes and they'll reach 80hz, which means you'll only need one sub. The whole system is then larger, but not more expensive than the S.E.X.y speakers. Also, GM proposed a neat looking corner TL design over on the BIB thread. If you've got corners to work with it may be a great option.
GM and Scottmoose: Those Monocor SP-200X's look like a nice candidate for a BIB, no? Surely the price is right (I haven't checked.)
Paul
Doc Bottlehead and Paul Joppa's S.E.X.y speakers:
http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/S.E.Xy speakers.html
If you read the threads on their forum re: it's creation, they were pretty unhappy with the performance of the 6.5 Fostexs in BR's. Thus the sealed/sub idea. Of course, if decent and very cheap powered subs aren't available to you, it isn't at all cost effective. It looks like a great appartment system to me.
I highly recommend the Hemp Drivers. You can put them in sealed boxes and they'll reach 80hz, which means you'll only need one sub. The whole system is then larger, but not more expensive than the S.E.X.y speakers. Also, GM proposed a neat looking corner TL design over on the BIB thread. If you've got corners to work with it may be a great option.
GM and Scottmoose: Those Monocor SP-200X's look like a nice candidate for a BIB, no? Surely the price is right (I haven't checked.)
Paul
njin said:
Hello Njin
If you want to build a fullrange speaker that is to be
able to play and clean rock music..
read this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50153
Hi
Thanks GM for the great insight in what driver needs to make R&R Music sound good, enjoyed reading that alot!
Scott and pjanda1, the Monacor SP-200X could be worth a thought - in a BIB!? I talked to a guy who's selling PA speakers recently, he highly recommended it for it's well balanced sound and the ability to take a lot of power and produce good bass.
But in the end, I think the way to go would be so called FAST with a 6"or 8" FR and a 12" PA woofer.
best, LC
BTW. Pioneer B20 costs about 70$ here in germany - for ONE driver!!!
___________________________________________
It's better to burn out than fade away! ----- April 5, 1994
Thanks GM for the great insight in what driver needs to make R&R Music sound good, enjoyed reading that alot!
Scott and pjanda1, the Monacor SP-200X could be worth a thought - in a BIB!? I talked to a guy who's selling PA speakers recently, he highly recommended it for it's well balanced sound and the ability to take a lot of power and produce good bass.
But in the end, I think the way to go would be so called FAST with a 6"or 8" FR and a 12" PA woofer.
best, LC
BTW. Pioneer B20 costs about 70$ here in germany - for ONE driver!!!
___________________________________________
It's better to burn out than fade away! ----- April 5, 1994
$70 for one B20 driver? Run for the hills! That's outrageous. It's bad enough in the UK.
Hmm, Monacor SP-200X BIB. Oddly enough, I ran a quick sim yesterday of this driver, and found it rolls off a little too much for my taste which surprised me, as it's specs look great, especially for the price. Still, dims will be on Godzilla's site and I'll keep tweaking. An ML version could be the way forward with these.
Best
Scott
Hmm, Monacor SP-200X BIB. Oddly enough, I ran a quick sim yesterday of this driver, and found it rolls off a little too much for my taste which surprised me, as it's specs look great, especially for the price. Still, dims will be on Godzilla's site and I'll keep tweaking. An ML version could be the way forward with these.
Best
Scott
njin said:
Hi
sorry njin, kind of lost track of your desires here...
Don't be too dissapoited, I think it's a good idea to go ahead and build them - diy also means make your own experience and get your own opinion on things!
Scott, I'd rather get a cheap flight to NY and get them there, than buying the B20s at this price here!
On the Monacors, the PA guy said they messure quite differently from the TSPs published, stronger moter, lower Q etc. , but I haven't even heared them ... so what do I know?
best, LC
Hey,
thanks for your comfort, lovechild 😉
I definately will buy the FE167E, that´s for sure. Perhaps I gonna put them together with a 10" PA-Sub (for example Eminence Delta 12 LF) as seen at the "FAST-System" in the link you posted above. I wish this wish that combination will give me what I want: Ultimate dynamics and a first class sound with any kind of music at every volume levels you can imagine! 😀
thanks for your comfort, lovechild 😉
I definately will buy the FE167E, that´s for sure. Perhaps I gonna put them together with a 10" PA-Sub (for example Eminence Delta 12 LF) as seen at the "FAST-System" in the link you posted above. I wish this wish that combination will give me what I want: Ultimate dynamics and a first class sound with any kind of music at every volume levels you can imagine! 😀
I meant at the bottom end actually, though I was about as clear as granite about it -my apologies. Interesting about the reported measurements, thanks for that.
For all the apparant 'problems' though, when comparing to their little brother SPH-60X drivers, it still stays either equal or over the smaller driver's performance, and being an 8in cone, it will shift a heck of a lot more air of course. I just had a check on some prices. Wilmslow Audio in the UK will sell the SPH-60X for £18.50, the SP-200X for £29 apiece, + P&P, which is pretty good considering. They don't hold in stock, but apparantly they can get them within 2 days. I believe it, I've dealt with them before.
For all the apparant 'problems' though, when comparing to their little brother SPH-60X drivers, it still stays either equal or over the smaller driver's performance, and being an 8in cone, it will shift a heck of a lot more air of course. I just had a check on some prices. Wilmslow Audio in the UK will sell the SPH-60X for £18.50, the SP-200X for £29 apiece, + P&P, which is pretty good considering. They don't hold in stock, but apparantly they can get them within 2 days. I believe it, I've dealt with them before.
Hi
Scott, I just read your post on the Monacors in the BIB thread, I thought the 6" SP155X could be worth a sim too, what do you think?
The SPH-60X cost 21 Euros and the SP155X 25 Euros here and I might have some spare time end of April, so ... you never know.
we should continue in the BIB thread I think....
best, LC
Scott, I just read your post on the Monacors in the BIB thread, I thought the 6" SP155X could be worth a sim too, what do you think?
The SPH-60X cost 21 Euros and the SP155X 25 Euros here and I might have some spare time end of April, so ... you never know.
we should continue in the BIB thread I think....
best, LC
lovechild said:
Greets!
You're welcome!
Agreed, this or a 12" coax is the minimum IMO.
Bummer about the B20's price overseas, it's definitely not worth it, but I gather there's numerous inexpensive 'FR' drivers available locally that would cost me a similar, or more, amount if imported, so I guess we'll have to settle for BSing each other about how much better a value ours is than yours. 😉
I'll take a look at the various Monacors when I get some other things done and post my findings on the BIB thread.
GM
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