Actually, I've been thinking of a battery powered system to allow me to play the park gazebo off my bicycle without getting permission from the city for the 120v AC to be turned on. I'm not prof enough for their Friday night scheduled concerts anyway. Audience size maybe 12 if I'm successful. Straight acoustic won't work, my voice is waaay too soft. Reason for bicycle, I don't run a truck anymore.
I'd pull the transformer from a PA mixer amp to run it off +48 v 21 AH lithium battery on the bike. Only the MMA-875t I own are split supply. Some sort of speaker that fits in a bike pannier, and not as rain sensitive as the cardboard 8"x8"x14" box I'm using now to accentuate bass on the 6.5" whizzer cone driver. Limitation now is microphone. I play autoharp & keys; keyboard will fit in bike bag but microphones require a stand and those are too heavy & too long. Maybe mike clamped to bike handlebars.
I've got a mixer & mike installed at the church to mix my performance into the Allen organ amp/speaker, but not everything I perform is church music.
I'd pull the transformer from a PA mixer amp to run it off +48 v 21 AH lithium battery on the bike. Only the MMA-875t I own are split supply. Some sort of speaker that fits in a bike pannier, and not as rain sensitive as the cardboard 8"x8"x14" box I'm using now to accentuate bass on the 6.5" whizzer cone driver. Limitation now is microphone. I play autoharp & keys; keyboard will fit in bike bag but microphones require a stand and those are too heavy & too long. Maybe mike clamped to bike handlebars.
I've got a mixer & mike installed at the church to mix my performance into the Allen organ amp/speaker, but not everything I perform is church music.
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Wasn't it James Last that used a wall of Quad ESLs?
That would have been a sigh(t) for sore ears and eyes 😉
//
That would have been a sigh(t) for sore ears and eyes 😉
//
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAB6BAgEEAE&usg=AOvVaw2T83F2OCIzpb66oBDrJh71
This system would be my choice
This system would be my choice
Yeah, my dream system would be a 30 or 40 foot long line array system - Fully horn loaded with directivity down to 30 Hz, and 50% efficiency up to at least several hundred. Water cooled rear chambers in all the speaker cabs. A quarter million watts of power, using all class D amps which use old-school iron horse toroid transformers in the power supplies (no such amps exist today). You’d be able to feel the bass 20 miles away 100kW of acoustic power is *loud* and throws a looooong way. To hell with small speakers. Use modern technology to make more, not less.
Of course, a crew of 20 who work for free to move it, as long as it’s just dreaming.
Of course, a crew of 20 who work for free to move it, as long as it’s just dreaming.
So?
I bet none of them was as ridiculous or unreal like the one you are asking for.
Is 220V some mythical dragon high power source?
We plug cellphone chargers into 220V without losing a blink.
Looks like anything above 9V or 12V is scary dangerous to you.
Well, maybe it´s better that way, you might get killed for not knowing your way around mains voltage.
Even 110V is dangerous.
WOW!!! I regularly run 64 8kW Lab Gruppen power amps in Stadium sized venues, go figure.
And not exactly into 8" speakers.
Impressive.
So now you are menacing me with your elder brother, the one who already shaves?
Well, it´s one step higher than accusing me with your Mom.
As a side note it´s interesting you are using a US based Forum to insult US .
(US Arschloch Quotient means "US ******* Quotient"
Since Forum will probably censor these words , Arschloch refers to the exit hole at the end of the Digestive System.
I bet you will make many Friends in this Forum 😀
English Translation of “Arschloch” | Collins German-English Dictionary
You want to feed Prius engine power into an 8" speaker?
Say that again. 🙄
So you are an expert on receiving prostate massage from electrical devices.
Do you have a blog?
Please share your impressions.
How do they compare to the real thing? 😛
HoundSounds.... It's becoming pretty clear you don't have a lot of experience with equipment from this century, things have changed A LOT from the good old days and the pro sound equipment produced in the last decade in particular has completely transformed the game. What you need to do is stop typing and go lookup what a Midas M32 or A&H QU can do, watch some youtube videos.
Also you clearly don't realize the breadth of experience some of the contributors to this thread have, this might be a DIY site but that doesn't mean everybody here is a hobbyest, some here have or work for active business utilizing some of the latest equipment and technology.
This isn't a slap down I don't mean any disrespect, it's almost Christmas so lets keep the spirit of the season and not let this deteriorate into juvenile insults and name calling. Sites like this are meant to be educational and in general are populated by people who like to help, so try not to bite the hand that feeds and open your mind. It really is an incredible time to be involved in pro sound, it's possible to do so much more with so little equipment, it's a mini golden age.
Also you clearly don't realize the breadth of experience some of the contributors to this thread have, this might be a DIY site but that doesn't mean everybody here is a hobbyest, some here have or work for active business utilizing some of the latest equipment and technology.
This isn't a slap down I don't mean any disrespect, it's almost Christmas so lets keep the spirit of the season and not let this deteriorate into juvenile insults and name calling. Sites like this are meant to be educational and in general are populated by people who like to help, so try not to bite the hand that feeds and open your mind. It really is an incredible time to be involved in pro sound, it's possible to do so much more with so little equipment, it's a mini golden age.
I do appreciate the posts by conanski chris661 & others listing what is available, but not seen in stores in the flyover states. Danley Nexo Alfa, EAW KF, Powersoft, who ever heard of those? Now there is more information tracking down the M32, it is a Midas M32. I don't live in London, NYC, or even Toronto, but I have ears that still go to 14 khz and like better approximations of reality than the stock behringer setup.
Hey, Nexo Alpha is pretty long in the tooth these days.
Still a good system, though - the processors have sense inputs which monitor the output of the amplifiers, so they can monitor actual levels, check for amp clipping, etc. Plenty of output, gets reasonably low, etc etc. It's just that modern systems can do the same job in a smaller and lighter package.
Powersoft is used more in Europe, I suspect - over in the USA, it'll mostly be Crown and QSC. I do like my Powersoft T-series amps, though.
Chris
Still a good system, though - the processors have sense inputs which monitor the output of the amplifiers, so they can monitor actual levels, check for amp clipping, etc. Plenty of output, gets reasonably low, etc etc. It's just that modern systems can do the same job in a smaller and lighter package.
Powersoft is used more in Europe, I suspect - over in the USA, it'll mostly be Crown and QSC. I do like my Powersoft T-series amps, though.
Chris
I not only can't afford a consultant, I can't afford new equipment. I mostly buy blown up equipment and repair it.
Knowing the word "Danley" I found on Ebay some S100 speakers for $3000 the pair and a pair of S50 Danley "flagship" for $4500 in Franklin TN, 130 miles from here. 133 lb each and are 4 ohm, not 8 so I'd have to add another pair output transistors to my ST120. I don't think they will be going in my music room to replace the stolen Peavey SP2-XT. But I can dream.
Wish my former church had hired Clair. They installed yamaha speakers for PA, and they were fine for speech. The consultant miked the piano and ran that through the PA, and that was horrid. None of those deaf old rich men that ran the church could hear the difference. Deer hunters, bass boat owners, hearing aid wearers, that is who the PA sound was tuned for.
They gave away the best sounding piano in the church, a Baldwin Acrosonic with a scar, and highly respected the highless lowless Yamaha console that was donated by another rich couple. When asked to take over as pianist after a death, I refused. Let them spend more money to hire a yes man.
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Ground loop (electricity) - Wikipedia
When there is a difference in line voltage between to lines using separate ground hum will happen. For instance, the guitar player plugs in a different circuit than the PA and then connect a direct box or goes line out to the PA there's a good change there will be ground loop hum. Some amps have a ground lift switch. In a club setting the power is not always good. There are drops and surges because of equipment going on and off such as refrigeration compressor motors kicking on. You've probably seen lights dim when that happens. There can be also be problems with the power coming into the building. Lots of buildings are not wired to code.
Some power conditioners have meters on them to let you know what the line voltage is. In one I was in I was next to the amp rack that had a power conditioner and when the bass and kick drum would hit, the power would drop. Low voltage kills amps and speakers.
In clubs sometimes all the circuits you can plug into are only equipped with 20 amp breakers so you can't plug all the amps into one circuit. Tube amps are power hungry and when you add the power amps you will what that circuit is designed to handle. Add a crappy 50' extension cord and the problem gets worse.
Battery power solves all the above power problems.
😀 Outstanding. It would probably work well in a lot of situations. The specs for cabinet design are out there for all to see. Those guys seem to have built a system that would have a lot of sweet spots and would sound good in every room location. They probably don't have to drive it hard either.
Churches often have a lot of natural echo but there is echo cancellation technology. As a kid I want to a big old Catholic church with a high ornate oak ceiling. The alter was like an amphitheater. It was a long time before loudspeakers were installed. The echo was very beautiful. On voice and an oragan from the choir loft filled the room. I never thought the church needed amplification and it's a big church.
If your church sucks up sound you'll need amplification but keep in mind, people sitting on the pews are quiet so you won't need much of a PA. I think the more unobtrusive a sound system is, the better. Me? I'd rather hear acoustic instruments and open air. It's more intimate. While today I'm an agnostic I still think that church should not be entertainment.
Think of it like this. What PA did Jesus use when he delivered the Sermon on the Mount?
I think 8" speakers would work and here's why.
This is an SWR Henry the 8 X 8 cabinet. I've played through on at a recording studio and I've heard them live. They can easily handle 5 string bass guitars. They have 8 Celestion speakers. It sounded really good and the amp was barely turned up. The question I have, do 2 8" drivers move as much air as one 15" driver?
I've used a 18" but mostly I've used 15"s. For bass guitar 15's sound better than 18's to me. I think they are punchier while putting out lots of low end.
I've always been a huge fan of the Amepeg SVT with the 8 x 10 cab. It's a bear to transport. I think vehicle size has dictated the size of sound equipment to a large degree.
In a concert setting like an arena or outdoor settings the low end cabinets are often a mix of different cabinet designs. I would guess that the sound companies are running at least a 3 way split and probably a 4 way if the are not using powered tops.
The bottom speakers look like bandp *** boxes or a folded horn with 2 18's or 15's each. I think that design increased the sound by 6db over front mounted vented boxes. A 6db increase is a lot.
When you to series connection the speakers can handle more wattage. An under powered amp can be more likely to blow a speaker than a high powered amp. Clipping is what kills drivers. If you don't push the power amps too hard you are less likely to damage speakers. If you use compression and gates you further minimize the risk. Speakers and horns can be fuse protected if clipping happens.
Wireless systems should not cause much. Mics can be equipped with transmitters that can be decoded by a receiver or receivers. I would thing that digital encoded signals could be sent to a mixing console and show up with the name of the instrument on each mixer channel. Maybe it could be done with voice recognition. Example: "Lead vocal channel one" "Bass Channel two. "Guitar channel three" The mic transmitters would talk to the receiver and the transmitter would talk to the mixer. It's a challenge but remember this is a dream PA system. You could go old school and use all radio transmitters.
No.
Double 8" is less than single 12".
A quad of 8" is around a single 15" in area, but any 15" is likely to have more xmax and can usually take more power since it can accommodate a larger voice coil and better heat dissipation/cooling.
The benefit of using 15"s is mainly cost, the cone is also compareatively lighter per area than an 18" or bigger ,which in turn requires less motor strength per movement/control. Two 15" are about equal to a single 21".
FWIW I do not come close to the experience of others participating here, but I do see 15" as a somewhat "golden" driver size. Good output per size in terms of frequency extension, spl and cost.
You have a lot of things backwards. Let's try to untangle the mess...
- "Handling" a 5-string bass isn't the same as providing LF reinforcement for 1000+ people. If you fire up WinISD or similar, you'll find that 8x8 cabinet has a LF response that is NOT flat to 30Hz, or even 40Hz.
- +1 on Kaffiman's post regarding 8"s vs 15"s. I'd bet on 8x8" drivers required to match a good 15" below 100Hz. Above 100Hz, the 8"s will win out on efficiency.
- For outdoor events, professional setups (NB - the one in your photo is NOT) will use lots of the same make/model cabinet to cover the low end.
- The cabs at the bottom of the stack are ported W-bins, which hit hard around 70Hz, but don't really get below that. A decent ported 18" will get an octave lower. Things are much more complicated than "they get 6dB louder". At which frequency?
- Clipping does not kill speakers. This is a common myth that should be dispelled. High average power levels are what kill speakers. When an amp lights up its red lights, that means it's chopping off the peaks. Push the fader up a bit more, and it'll chop off more of the peaks. As you push the fader, though, the average power is also increasing, and that's what destroys speakers.
Consider this: guitar speakers are often fed signals with 100% THD. Do they let the smoke out as soon as the distortion pedal is pressed? No. Why? Because the average power level is still within the speaker's capabilities.
- Compressors reduce the dynamic range of a signal. When you're considering average power levels, this is a Bad Thing.
- Gates won't have much say over whether or not a speaker gets melted.
- Fuse protection? Please. That's a really really bad idea: "line array element number 4 just lost its HF driver. Climb the truss and change the fuse".
Use proper DSP and proper limiters. I'd recommend you download Armonia+, import some virtual amps, and see what processing is available today. It'll probably blow your mind.
- I assume you mean "wireless systems should not cost much". Go and take a look here: Sennheiser SKM 9000 - Wireless Microphone;Condenser Microphone - Handheld Transmitter - Studio ; Live performance
They're streaming uncompressed digital audio, which is about as good as it gets. This isn't a Radio Shack system - this is the stuff that Artists You've Heard Of use for their stadium tours, where is has to work first time, every time, in RF-hostile environments.
Chris
- "Handling" a 5-string bass isn't the same as providing LF reinforcement for 1000+ people. If you fire up WinISD or similar, you'll find that 8x8 cabinet has a LF response that is NOT flat to 30Hz, or even 40Hz.
- +1 on Kaffiman's post regarding 8"s vs 15"s. I'd bet on 8x8" drivers required to match a good 15" below 100Hz. Above 100Hz, the 8"s will win out on efficiency.
- For outdoor events, professional setups (NB - the one in your photo is NOT) will use lots of the same make/model cabinet to cover the low end.
- The cabs at the bottom of the stack are ported W-bins, which hit hard around 70Hz, but don't really get below that. A decent ported 18" will get an octave lower. Things are much more complicated than "they get 6dB louder". At which frequency?
- Clipping does not kill speakers. This is a common myth that should be dispelled. High average power levels are what kill speakers. When an amp lights up its red lights, that means it's chopping off the peaks. Push the fader up a bit more, and it'll chop off more of the peaks. As you push the fader, though, the average power is also increasing, and that's what destroys speakers.
Consider this: guitar speakers are often fed signals with 100% THD. Do they let the smoke out as soon as the distortion pedal is pressed? No. Why? Because the average power level is still within the speaker's capabilities.
- Compressors reduce the dynamic range of a signal. When you're considering average power levels, this is a Bad Thing.
- Gates won't have much say over whether or not a speaker gets melted.
- Fuse protection? Please. That's a really really bad idea: "line array element number 4 just lost its HF driver. Climb the truss and change the fuse".
Use proper DSP and proper limiters. I'd recommend you download Armonia+, import some virtual amps, and see what processing is available today. It'll probably blow your mind.
- I assume you mean "wireless systems should not cost much". Go and take a look here: Sennheiser SKM 9000 - Wireless Microphone;Condenser Microphone - Handheld Transmitter - Studio ; Live performance
They're streaming uncompressed digital audio, which is about as good as it gets. This isn't a Radio Shack system - this is the stuff that Artists You've Heard Of use for their stadium tours, where is has to work first time, every time, in RF-hostile environments.
Chris
in what way does the Despacio DJ system qualify as a live sound rig?
i would not want to have to move it...
i would not want to have to move it...
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